The 2023 draft is over and all the pundit rankings and predictions fall into the theme of the old Edwin Starr song about war. Good for absolutely nothing. But have we learned anything about Brian Gutekunst and the Packer brain trust?
There are a couple of running themes you could pull out of this Packer draft. But before going there, this truth: nobody knows if this is going to be the best draft ever or closer to the worst. Thirteen players makes for a lot of dice rolling at the same time, so the odds are in the Packers’ favor. And maybe that emboldened Gutekunst to take a bit more risk than in any previous draft. His first round choice never started a college game. His first pick in the second round has missed significant time to major injury in both high school and college.
Then, seemingly learning nothing from the J’Mon Moore 4th round disaster pick of 2018, Gutekunst picked two receivers in the draft with the dreaded “drop issue” tag. Both 2nd round pick Jayden Reed and 5th round pick Dontayvion Wicks have that dreaded ticket punched into their description by pundits who watched their film. The term also pops up, although less frequently and with less concern, on the Packers second tight end pick, Tucker Kraft.
The prior injury issue that caused Musgrave to drop is shared with Kraft and kicker Anders Carlson. Carlson, a fifth round selection, and 5th round pick, QB Sean Clifford were both listed with undrafted free agent grades prior to the draft by most pundits. Every draft selection has risk, but Gutekunst took seemingly every type of risk from every angle in this draft and it is clear his draft board was not in sync with many pundits.
List of Green Bay Packers 2023 NFL Draft Picks
|1||13 (from NYJ)||Lukas Van Ness||DE||Iowa|
|2||42 (from NYJ)||Luke Musgrave||TE||Oregon State|
|2||50 (from TB)||Jayden Reed||WR||Michigan State|
|3||78||Tucker Kraft||TE||South Dakota State|
|5||149||Sean Clifford||QB||Penn State|
|5||159 (from DET, via JAX and ATL)||Dontayvion Wicks||WR||Virginia|
|6||179 (from HOU, via TB)||Karl Brooks||DT||Bowling Green|
|6||207 (from NYJ)||Anders Carlson||K||Auburn|
|7||235 (from DET via LAR)||Lew Nichols III||RB||Central Michigan|
|7||242 (from JAX)||Anthony Johnson Jr.||S||Iowa State|
Now, before fans start to throw in the 2023 season towel and start petitions to fire the entire Packer scouting department, it would be wise to remember the strategy of some great NFL draft strategists. In 1986, Bill Walsh had a spectacular draft for the 49ers. He drafted in order, Tom Rathman (FB),Tim McKyer (CB), John Taylor (WR), Charles Haley (Edge), Steve Wallace (OT), Kevin Fagan (DT), Don Griffin (CB). In all the 49ers got 85 NFL seasons played out of this draft, including 8 pro bowls. Walsh had a couple of habits that served him well. He picked players with high athletic skill, believing that if a player could make outstanding athletic plays on film, his staff could coach them to eliminate negative plays. He also believed in going after players he coveted instead of taking what the draft dealt him.
Draft Strategies and Outcomes
Walsh traded up and down to draft his targeted players, but always had backup lists in case he was foiled by other GMs. He also would draft multiple players at the same position if his team had a need. His 1981 draft where he secured Ronnie Lott, Carleton Williamson, and Eric Wright is his best example. He also believed in getting players that had fallen in the draft due to injury. Kevin Fagan had to sit out the 1986 season to recover from injury, but played 7 seasons with 74 starts.
Ron Wolf didn’t just follow his board either. The Brett Favre trade was the beginning of the transformation of the Packers, from losers to winners. In his first draft, Gutekunst jumped around and landed Jaire Alexander. In the latest draft, he traded down twice in the second round knowing he could still land Reed and his tight end target in later rounds. The bottom line is there is nothing Gutekunst does in his strategy or plan execution that is unsound. But as in many drafts, not all players excel in the NFL. The drive to excel must be off the charts and players must escape debilitating injury. Pundits busts are never discussed, but Gutekunst’s will be over analyzed for years. The draft is over. The bets were placed on the table and the roulette wheel is spinning. Time to lace them up and see who can hit the jackpot.
The Walsh and Wolf strategy works when you are capable of identifying legitimate NFL talent. So far Gute hasn’t shown that ability.
I guess Reed, Musgrave, and company will fit in good with the rest of the receiver group. The Packers had the most drops and highest percentage of drops in the NFL last year. Second highest was the 49ers. I guess it is not the drops that count as much as when they occur, and what you do with your opportunities when you do catch the ball.
The other thing the Packer receivers were near the bottom of the league last year was broken tackles after the catch, and yards after contact. We all saw how easy the receivers went down on contact or close contact. Hopefully this group helps in receiving yards after contact.
For a team that speaks – we are not in a rebuild – they are in a rebuild. So I think we can understand the two move backs in the second which netted two extra picks in the latter rounds. Fine. Then do something (productive) with all those picks!
I think a lot of fans are rightly scratching their heads over Sean Clifford. A fifth round pick for a guy who most observers had at UDFA. Maybe they thought drafting a QB in the mid rounds would put a chip on Jordan’s shoulder and he’d toss back to back MVP seasons. Maybe. Danny Etling better light it up in camp and pre-season because this guy was taken in the fifth!
Anders Carlson. If your name is Anders Carlson and you play football you are going to be a kicker with a name like Anders Carlson. It just has to work. That is a kicker’s name if there ever was one.
There were six names routinely tossed around as the best TE prospects in the draft and Green Bay drafted two of those so there should be a bit of hope there. C’mon Tucker, break that third round curse and be a world beater.
I hope Lukas Van Ness turns out to be as good or better than a previous LB taken out of Iowa by the Packers, Aaron Kampman. I’d take another Aaron Kampman any day.
Time will tell. It is a young rebuilding team so plenty of these 13 guys will get a pretty good shot, probably better than most years.
“Jordan Love fell to us”
“We are in WIN NOW mode”
“We are not in a rebuild”
Does anyone else notice a pattern here? Either this guy is in denial or he loves to say the complete opposite of what everyone else can plainly see clear as day. I feel like his face would go good on the side of a Bud Lite can.
I noticed a pattern 3 days after he got here.
Oops…3 days after he made a new username.
In completely unrelated….
“Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.” – TP
Yea ok..lol…should we get a pool going on what month and year that actually works?
I was referring to Gutekunst but now that you put it that way…
That’s interesting Howard. The 49ers had the second most drops and went to the NFC championship game. Of course Brock Purdy played better than Aaron Rodgers. But we’ll blame everything on the rookie drops or the fact we didn’t trade for TJ Hockenson. Certainly Rodgers lack of interest or involvement can’t be called into question.
You’ve got two emerging studs in Christian Watson’s and Romeo Doubs. Jayden Reed is a different kind of receiver made to play the slot. It’s hard to believe he won’t play as well as Randall Cobb who often disappeared in long stretches. And we all know Rodgers couldn’t do without him in New York. That leaves Wicks as a developmental guy similar to Toure last year. You got two bites out of the TE apple. Hopefully one of those doesn’t have a worm in it.
As far as Sean Clifford, he wouldn’t have been my choice. I preferred Tanner from Stanford or Hall from BYU, both who went after Clifford. But I’m not going to get too excited over a career backup QB which is what all these guys will end up being. If they’re lucky. As far as the kicker, that was the guy Rich Bisaccia wanted and he’s supposed to be a special teams guru. I’ll defer to him on kickers and punters. There were questions about Gary coming out and he developed into an elite pass rusher. I expect the same from Van Ness. With Gary it was production, with Van Ness it’s the fact he didn’t start. If Van Ness turns into Gary 2.0 then it’s a win. As with all these guys, we shall see…
Two paragraphs highlighting the new receivers.
Is this the same clown that said…..”we don’t need wide receivers?”
Two paragraphs highlighting the new receivers.
Is this the same clown that said…..”we don’t need wide receivers?”
I wouldn’t exactly call Doubs an “emerging stud” based on what I saw last year. He showed some promise, but I think his ceiling is low end #2 guy. Still a solid player, but I am pretty restrictive when calling players “studs.”
The Packers are clearly in a rebuild, they just are wishfully thinking Love will keep them competitive. But their draft choices indicate to me they’re building for a couple years out. Getting an additional possible first round pick for next year tells me they know they’re planning more for the future. And the Love contract restructuring tells me they don’t have a ton of confidence in Love either. Let’s face it, if the Packers have a winning season next year, it will be a miracle. Even 6 wins might look good.
Kevin, Aaron Rodgers was notorious for playing buddy ball. Someone between Davante Adams, Randall Cobb, and Allen Lazard was always going to get the ball. What I find interesting, it was always you ladies who cried for drafting WR’s. It was never Rodgers himself, who couldn’t be bothered in his old age to work with young guys. Rodgers always preferred veterans. The problem there, of course, is when you’re squeezing your organization out of every last dollar you have nothing to signed the veteran players Rodgers wanted. So that left the Randal Cobbs and Marcedes Lewis of the NFL. As long as the big three were on the roster, WR would never be a priority. Last I checked Kevin, like Rodgers, Adams, Lazard, and Cobb are gone and therefore need to be replaced. As far as Romeo Doubs, Kato, we shall see. His play has jumped out since training camp last year and continued into the regular season. With only a high ankle sprain holding him back. I expect a year two jump and a bright future. Not a bad pick coming from the 4th round.
Two paragraphs highlighting the new receivers.
Is this the same clown that said…..”we don’t need wide receivers?”
I look at it this way Deepsky. The contract extension gives both sides what they want. Love gets more money up front. The Packers get cap relief next season. This is Jordan Love’s shot. This is what he’s worked for the last three years. It’s now or never. Gutekunst has given him talented, albeit young and inexperienced WR’s and TE’s, a veteran running game, and a healthy OL. It’s time to make it work or move on. Ted Thompson had no idea how good Aaron Rodgers would be and neither did anyone else. If he did, he wouldn’t have wasted a second round pick on Brian Brohm. Likewise no can say for certainty how good or how bad Love is. That’s what makes this season so interesting. You mention only 6 wins this year, that’s all we got from Rodgers first year as starter but we all knew we had our franchise QB. I’m satisfied with 6 wins and Love turns out to be a franchise QB. If Love is the real deal, everything will fall into place.
“Gutekunst has given him talented, albeit young and inexperienced WR’s and TE’s, a veteran running game, and a healthy OL” – Tom M.
Don’t forget about a top 5 elite defense, right Aunt Tommi?
OOP’s, the top 5 elite defense was last season, when we didn’t need receivers.
This is now the youngest team in the NFL. Not one of the youngest, it is the youngest.
What that means in analysis of draft picks is that much like last year people will say that BG made good picks because so many of them stuck around, made the team, and played. But when that is simply what you have, they have to make the team play. So yes, many of these new picks get a pretty good shot at sniffing the field because that is what GB has, a young rebuilding team. In a way that is a positive thing because you might sooner find a contributor than in the past when portions of the roster were veteran solid and new talent had to wait their turn. Now, it is their turn because it is what it is. It may also expose bust-worthiness but that is something in the – we shall see category. The real test for these guys is down the road and anointing them now is pointless.
That being the case you would think UDFAs would flock to GB, especially if you are a DL or Safety hoping to get on a team. GB still has short comings and real position competition in those areas.
Hey, did anyone else read the story that Kevin King was getting himself ready for a return to football and he got injured, and needs surgery, again? The story that writes itself. He’s frail.
Real expectations are that rookies will make some rookie mistakes and some will shine from time to time. Some guys from last year will make a second year jump and some will make you say, what the hell happened (?). There are some guys to be hopeful of in this year’s selections. I’m just as anxious to see what MLaF can do as a coach with excuses removed cause I don’t think he is/was a 13 win/year genius at this point. Good luck to him with his plan, his offense and his QB. I think there is a large microscope with Joe Barry placed on the glass slide beneath it. Barry’s defense needs to perform up expectations of having so many high round picks across his defense. I think both of those guys are going to be leaning hard on Rich Bisaccia who seems to be the coach who has shown he can get results from players during his short time in GB. So far, he’s been the impressive one.
Should be interesting.
I did see that story on Kevin King, Mitch. He tears his achilles in practice getting ready to make a comeback. How fitting…
I’m confused, doesn’t he have to have some teams interested in him if he wanted to make a comeback? (See Colin Kaepernick)
Funny how no teams wanted him last year, but this year is different somehow?
The good news for King, i wonder if he knows how to change oil, maybe install tires.
I know a guy.
Maybe the 3-14 Bears could use him, i heard that team is on the rise.
In case you missed it, even with Aaron Rodgers gone to New York there are players on the roster that want the team to bring Mercedes Lewis back. What a novel idea. I thought Lewis was only there to appease Rodgers?
Also, Matt Lafluer has credited Tom Clements for the “huge strides” Jordan Love has made in the past year. That’s weird, I thought Clements was just Rodgers’ buddy that he wanted to hang around like the good old times. You mean to tell me he actually has value? Who woulda thought that an 18 year NFL veteran knew what he was talking about when it came to position coaches.
Lastly, one VERY interesting take that is 1,000% spot on. Mina Kimes has pointed out that “the Packers defense has *eight* first round draft picks, compared to one on offense: Jordan Love. The young QB isn’t under the most pressure next year—their DC is.”
Talk about the cold hard truth.
They then showed an image that resembled this list-
cornerback Jaire Alexander
defensive tackle Kenny Clark
edge rusher Rashan Gary
safety Darnell Savage
cornerback Eric Stokes
inside linebacker Quay Walker
defensive tackle Devonte Wyatt
edge rusher Lukas Van Ness
To see more-
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being young and talented. The NFL is a young man’s game. I think this team will both scare and surprise many of you. If the Packers are actually competitive this season and win a bunch of games, which I think likely. You’ll no longer be able to say it was because of Aaron Rodgers. You’ll have to acknowledge it’s because of the team Brian Gutekunst built. A terrifying thought to many. You would rather the team fail than admit you were wrong. Go buy your number 8 NY Jets jerseys. He’s gonna need every one of you to make excuses for him.
Touche’. I enjoyed this.
We enjoy him also.
I don’t always laugh at the mentally challenged, but sometimes i make an exception.
When Tommi talks, people listen!!
Like when he said……
Tom M 1 week ago
Jordan Love just signed a two year contract extension.
When in fact, it was a 1 year extension.
We love Tommi, that’s no secret.
But laying out facts, truths, and reality is his forte.
See, it’s like this, Tommi doesn’t understand the difference between a 2 year extension, or the original 4th season, and getting a 1 year extension,
Our friend Tommi calls that a two year extension.
So details, facts, logical thinking and truth, elude him.
But that is part of Tommi’s charm.
And also the reason i’m hear to explain his mistakes, like i’m doing now.
I’ll admit it’s kind of a part time job, well check that, somewhere between part time and full time.
But hey….we love him, so it’s all good.
We cut Tommi some slack, is he the brightest bulb in the room….God no.
Does he like to pretend he knows something…ad nauseam.
Is he emotionally and mentally unstable over Aaron Rodgers? Is water wet?
But here’s the thing, it’s not Tommi’s fault, it’s just the way he is.
He didn’t ask to be born stupid.
Or have severe emotional mental challenges.
That’s just the way he is.
So that’s why i say….Godspeed Tommi!
Never stop trying!
For those of you taking perverse pleasure in the Kevin King come back injury, I’ll quote the late, great Gordon Lightfoot:
“When you’re out on the road, and feeling quite lost, consider the burden of fame”
“And he who is wise, will not criticize, when other men fail at the game”
Kevin King never got a 150 million contract extension. Kevin King was never given control over the roster. Brian Gutekunst didn’t spend all of his cap so Kevin King could win a championship. It was all done for Aaron Rodgers. It was Aaron Rodgers who never lived up to his part of the bargain. It was Aaron Rodgers who must take responsibility. Vilifying Kevin King makes you look weak and small…
Tommi, do you ever listen to yourself, and wonder why society rejects you?
Vilifying Kevin King makes you look weak and small…
“Of course, all i ever do in here is vilify Rodgers, wait…whut? – Tommi
Tommi, here is another learning opportunity for you….
Telling facts and truth about Kevin King, isn’t vilifying him.
But because of your simple minded thought process, no one is judging you.
Now what is an example of vilifying…
” Rodgers got traded because he couldn’t win a championship” (bullshit)
““And he who is wise, will not criticize, when other men fail at the game”
“That…i never do.” – Tommi
When Tommi is right, i think he should be given credit, because that’s how i roll, fair and balanced.
“The contract extension gives both sides what they want. Love gets more money up front.”
DAMN!!!…Sure enough, Love is getting more money up front, he’s correct and no one can dispute that, and i’ll defend him on it.
Kudos Tommi..you nailed it!!
So…why do i feel there is more to the story, what’s the ‘rub’?
Well, one thing Tommi did get very wrong and didn’t tell us is that, Love really didn’t get what he wanted.
Let me explain…. the the extension is NOT what Love wanted because he lost money, a lot of money.
Tommi tries to explain that Love benefits by getting money up front this way, and he’s correct.
But at what price?
The price was $6.77 million he lost vs. getting the fifth year option of $20.27 million (fully guaranteed).
So, here’s the rub.
Love has made about 10 million his first 3 seasons.
I doubt he needs any of that new money…up front.
How much did it cost Love in lets say ‘interest’ to get that money up front vs the 5th year option, it cost him roughly 6.7 million.
That is money lost folks
Doesn’t sound like much of a ‘deal’.
Nor does it sound like Love “got what he wanted”
Now Princess, i want to be entertained…..
How can you spin this back to being some advantage, for Love to lose 6.7 million?
Go ahead Professor, educate us.
Albert Breers new SI article breaks down the trade between the Jets and the Pack.
I don’t recall anytime, or anyone questioning Breers professionalism in stating the true facts, so i believe the article is just, on it’s face.
One thing i will say is i think Joe Douglass dropped the ball (a bit) in negotiations.
There is some talk of the Jets (Woody Johnson) not wanting to give the Packers a hard #1 next season.
Gute and Douglass eventually agreed to a conditional 1st round pick based on Rodgers playing time of 65% this coming season.
That was weak imo. VERY weak.
Rodgers has started every game the last 9 seasons with the exception being the 2017 season and one game (Covid) in 2021.
So percentage wise (88.8%), that’s almost the same as a hard #1 anyway.
I’m guessing that Douglass did that to appease Woody Johnson who had final say on the outcome of the trade.
If i’m Douglass, i’m pushing to do the trade at a #1 in 2024 if the Jets make the playoffs in 2023.
Then, if the Jets don’t make the playoffs, the Jets give the Packers their #2 in 2024.
I mean, that seems fair considering the Jets haven’t made the playoffs in 12 years.
The current record in major league sports.
Reasons why this makes sense for the Jets……
A) The Packers most likely (100%?) have higher picks in the draft than the Jets.
B) The Jets first round and 2nd round pick in 2024 is most likely going to be in the back end of the first round.
C) Because i said so 😉
In the end, Gute didn’t get what he wanted. (2 first and a 2nd), but the 65% playing time was a win.
For our resident Viking fan…..
That is what is called writing a post featuring critical thinking.
I understand where you are most likely confused, google is your friend.
Writing obsessive, simple minded hate post, takes little effort, and makes the author look weak and small.
I read the Albert Breer article as well. Kevin. And have no reason to doubt his accounting of events. The reason Joe Douglas folded was because he didn’t have any leverage. Which was exactly what I was telling you from the very beginning. The free agent QB market had dried up and he had already promised his fan base at a Jets rally that Rodgers would be their QB. Joe Douglas painted himself in a corner. He couldn’t switch gears and then try and sell his fan base on Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz. New York fans would have tarred and feathered him on the spot. And rightfully so. He had to pay Gutekunst’s price. And that’s exactly what happened. Joe Douglas did end up giving up the 13 pick when he said he wouldn’t. Switching that pick with our 15th was like getting and extra third and prevented the Jets from taking the last blue chip tackle prospect. That was huge. Gutekunst won the trade. Packer fans should be happy about that and not the least bit surprised since since we had the leverage.
As far as Jordan Love’s contract extension, as usual you fail to see the big picture here. This isn’t about money. If Love is the real deal, the money takes care of itself. The Packers were always generous financially to both Favre and Rodgers. If Love is a franchise QB then Gutekunst and Murphy will gladly pay him market value. They WANT him to succeed. Jordan Love sounded like a confident young QB at his presser today, ready for the challenges that lie ahead. I’m excited for him.
He didn’t fold, he played it wrong, there is an art to negotiating that starts even before negotiations begin.
I realize there are not a lot of negotiations in selling burgers and fries and there is nothing wrong with that Tommi.
It’s all good, we’re still friends, but this is above your pay grade Sparky.
lol…I failed to see the big picture, then you start out with the IF word?
Try to spin it all you’d like Tommi, it’s a one year extension. Plain and simple.
But as always, thanks for trying 🙂
Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh are playing for their jobs. You gonna trust Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz to get you to the playoffs to save your job? Aaron Rodgers gives the Jets the best chance to make the playoffs and get a contract extension. Joe Douglas had no choice but to pay Gutekunst’s price. Playing it right or wrong had nothing to do with it. No one in New York is crying over this trade. Everyone is too busy sucking each other’s dick, telling each other how much they love and admire each other. Why, Rodgers himself actually bathed, brushed his teeth, and got a haircut. Rodgers is putting asses in the stadium and selling jerseys. Everyone is happy…..for now. We’ll see how long it lasts.
The Packers have made an enormous commitment to Jordan Love. In order to show his appreciation, he signed a extension that actually gives him a 8 million dollar raise now for cap relief on next year’s team. Jordan Love’s team. Jordan Love and the Packers want this to be a long term relationship that’s beneficial to both parties. Trust is a two way street and both are trusting each other. They’re doing it right. Jordan Love is betting on himself. If he can play, and we’ll know by November if he can, then he’ll never see that final year of his current contract. He’ll get Daniel Jones/Derrick Carr/Jimmy G money. And that’s just to start with.
The schedule is out. Five prime time games including thanksgiving against Detroit. We open up on the road against Chicago which will be a great game to see how Jordan Love stacks up against Justin Fields. According to Kevin, the quarterback whisper, neither QB could hold Tim Boyle’s jock strap. Considering both teams cut Tim Boyle, I’d take his evaluation with a grain of salt. Meanwhile Aaron Rodgers and the Jets open up against Josh Allen and Buffalo, think Minnesota only better. And it only goes down hill from there.
That’s not true Scooter. Love could hold Boyles jock strap, as he was getting ready to dress for the games as Rodgers back up.
Because Love didn’t have to dress for the game because he was inactive the whole season and never had to dress once so he had time to hold Boyles jock strap.
It was the season that UDFA Boyle beat out 1st round pick Love for the #2 spot behind Rodgers.
Hope i cleared that up for you cupcake.
Kevin, If I go into my Chevy dealership to buy the shiny new red Corvette on the showroom floor and I’m not willing to pay the dealers price, I don’t get the car. They don’t give a fuck if I buy it or someone else does. They’re gonna get their price. It has nothing to do with how I “played” negotiations. And to take the analogy further, if I promise my wife I’m coming home with a new Corvette and show up with a Chevy Spark in my driveway, I’m fucked. I have to deliver on what I promised. Joe Douglas had to deliver what he promised. My wife isn’t interested in the details, she wants to show her friends her new Corvette. Jets fans ultimately don’t care how Joe Douglas got Aaron Rodgers. They want to brag to everyone in the AFC East that there’s a new sheriff in town. Just like that Corvette on the showroom floor, Joe Douglas had no choice but to pay full price for Aaron Rodgers. And right now, no one in New York is complaining.
If someone read Albert Breers article to you, and explained it for you.
You would realize that the full price that Gute wanted was two 1’s, and a second.
Gute didn’t get full price Goober.
Why Tommi…..do i have to explain simple facts to you….constantly!!
Now, IF there comes a day when you understand what full price means, then we can discuss your make believe corvette purchase where i will explain to you how you can get your best price by having multiple dealers giving you best price quotes, and competing for your business without ever leaving your house.
It’s a one year extension, not a 2 year extension.
Now admit you were wrong, because everyone knows it, then go to bed so you can make it to work tomorrow.
Those egg Mcmuffins aren’t going to make themselves in the morning.
Everyone will want to pick up Kevin’s new book, “The Art of the Deal, volume 2.” Where he convinces himself he has leverage and fucks himself out of an Aaron Rodgers trade only to start marginal backup QB Tim Boyle to save his job. What could possibly go wrong?
I’ll tell you what could go wrong, i could come to your McDonalds and they would tell me there is no egg Mcmuffins, because you overslept….again.
I don’t know how you keep that job 🙄.
Anyway, enough with educating the mentally challenged…
In one of the MANY articles from down the hall, there is an article talking about the Packers adding an experience wide receiver.
Roughly 95% say no to adding an experienced pass catcher.
Reaganrulz is correct. For a variety of reasons
A) We don’t have 1 skilled proven pass catcher, on the team.
B) A productive smart WR or TE would be invaluable for Love’s rookie season and learning process.
C) Would it help win games?
People…Nobody see’s these as positives?
Then you either don’t care if the team wins now, or you don’t think it’s possible that they field a winning team
You can’t rely on rookie draft classes for success on the field.
Although, this seems to be the Packer Way under Murphy/Gute.
Both Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs have proven to be NFL WR’s. With Watson an emerging star. If Jayden Reed can play the slot, then you have your starting WR’s. With Toure, Wicks, and that other kid to fill out the 4th and 5th WR spots. There’s no room for a veteran. Matt LaFleur said as much at his last presser. He said, we’re gonna roll with what we have. We’ve signed veteran TE’s and WR’s before with limited production then you bitch about paying them too much. We don’t need veterans now with Rodgers gone. It’s called a youth movement. We get second year jumps from Watson and Doubs, we’ll be fine at WR. Like Love, these WR’s need to play.
” We don’t need veterans now with Rodgers gone. It’s called a youth movement.” – Princess
Lol…and almost exactly a year ago, the wise Tommi told us ” we don’t need receivers, not with our top 5 defense”
Where did that get us?….an 8-9 record.
Tom M 24 hours ago
Both Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs have proven to be NFL WR’s.
They showed flashes Tommi.
Why do you keep trying to convince us how stupid you are?
WE ALREADY KNOW!!!
They proved they can catch some passes, Watson proved he can do something after the catch.
Watson proved he has potential injury issues.
Doubs proved he has drop issues.
They aren’t proven yet in their rookie season you f’ing moron.
JFC Tommi….Reading your post sometimes is just excruciatingly painful because i just feel sorry for you…kinda.
You come off like the kid who has no one to play with so you say stupid things to try to get attention…a bit like Skip Bayless.
Pay attention here Kevin and you might learn something. Although I doubt it. When you go into negotiations you always ask for more than you’ll take for whatever it is you’re selling. You see this in retail all the time. List price vs sale price. It allows both sides leeway to negotiate. Gutekunst ask for more but he also had a bottom line that he wouldn’t budge, a first and a second. While Joe Douglas didn’t want to give up that hard one next year. In order to give Joe Douglas the illusion he won the deal, next year’s one is based on a flimsy condition of 60% playing time. To get Gutekunst to agree to this, he sweetened the pot by swapping the 13 pick with the 15th pick. And this, in my opinion, is where Joe Douglas lost the trade. He would have been better served by giving up next years one and this years two, straight up and keeping the 13th. Why? Because the Jets desperately needed a LT and the last remaining blue chip LT prospect was still on the board at 13 but gone by 15. Joe Douglas could have had Aaron Rodgers and the LT he needed to solidify his OL, the weakest link on his team. Instead, he got Aaron Rodgers and a LB he doesn’t really need all for the illusion of not giving up a hard one in next year draft. Most NY fans don’t see this because they’re just giddy they got Aaron Rodgers. But I’m sure all of this is over your head…
Ok, so what your saying is, Gute, didn’t get his full price, he didn’t get what he wanted.
But he took what he could get.
Thanks for clearing that up Sparky.
Now, when do you start your shift, i’m hankering for a Big Mac.
I rewatched every throw made to both Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs last season. Not just the catches, but the drops, and the missed throws. Two things stood out to me. First, they’re both big time NFL WR’s. Christian Watson can be as good as he wants to be. He has the skill set to be great. You don’t hamper their development by bringing in a marginal veteran WR. Let them play and develop with Jordan Love. Secondly, I found it alarming how many times Aaron Rodgers just flat out missed both WR’s. It was painfully obvious Rodgers could no longer make the deep throw constantly to a wide open Watson. This of course is nothing new. Rodgers couldn’t connect with MVS on deep routs either before he left for Kansas City.
There is also a video out by a NFL QB coach who analyzed Rodgers play and what went wrong in that season ending game against Detroit. His comments were telling since he wasn’t a fan one way or the other, only making comments on what the tape told him. While he concluded Rodgers could still make all the throws an NFL QB needed to make, he questioned his decision making. By the last game of the season, Christian Watson had emerged as the teams best WR and the game plan clearly had him as the focal point of the offense. Yet at least half a dozen times during that Detroit game Rodgers looked off an open Christian Watson only to throw the ball to Allan Lazard. He called this “buddy ball” and wasn’t a fan of deviating from the game plan. We as Packer fans have seen this for years with Rodgers constantly targeting everything to Davante Adams. It begs the question, how long before Garrett Wilson and the Jets WR’s start complaining when Rodgers throws everything to Lazard and Cobb. Buddy ball won’t cut it in New York…
“There is also a video out by a NFL QB coach who analyzed Rodgers play….” – Princess
Link it little lady
PF4L, the video Tom is referring to
Do you realize you mentioned Rodgers 8 times.
I can recall someone saying you’ll still be obsessing over Rodgers even after he leaves Green Bay.
Go figure. This illness isn’t just going to go away Tommi.
How long can you let Rodgers control you?
Tom M 3 hours ago
I rewatched every throw made to both Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs last season.
It was painfully obvious Rodgers could no longer make the deep throw constantly to a wide open Watson.
Which play did you watch for that Tommi?
The first game of the season when Rodgers dropped a 50 yard dime right into Watson’s hands, and then Watson…..dropped it.
Was that the deep throw you watched Princess?
We should have cut Christian Watson on the spot, right Kevin? How dare a rookie make a mistake! What was Aaron Rodgers excuse for playing like an old man for 17 games? Let me guess, it’s Brian Gutekunst’s fault. Jordan Love will throw the ball to all his young receivers, not just his buddies and that’s a good thing. But this is what you do, Kevin. If anyone is critical of your hero, you’re right there to blame someone else. The tape doesn’t lie. Unfortunately, you’re too stupid to know what you’re seeing, so you read somewhere we need a veteran WR. You then start parroting what someone else says because original thought is beyond your comprehension. We don’t need a veteran WR. What we need is both Watson and Doubs to take a second year jump. We need a young QB that doesn’t play buddy ball and actually runs his HC’s offense and not some bastardized version of it. We need Jaylen Reed to play the slot, and Musgrave and Kraft to stay heathy and play TE. We need to understand that mistakes are part of the process. But like the complexity of the Aaron Rodgers trade, this is all beyond your special needs…
What else did you see in rewatching those pass plays Princess?
Did you see Doubs 6 drops Maam?
Tell us again how those were Rodgers fault Nancy.
Lol DAMN!! You sound angry sweetheart!! 😊
You gonna be ok pumpkin?
Royce Newman is a 10 year starter and Kevin King us a good corner.
The tape doesn’t lie!!
😄 Whatever you say pudding cup
“We don’t need receivers!!” – Tom M
That must be why Gute drafted 6 wide receivers and 2 tight ends in the last 13 months. Not too mention the UDFA receivers he’s signed during that time.
Cupcake….What happened to all the top 5 defense talk this off season?
Don’t want to chance lookin like a dumbass again amirite? 🤨
Way too late snapperhead.
Random, off the cuff….
It looks like Ja Morant is giving Tommi a run for his money. 😮
What can Jets fans expect with Rodgers under center.
I think, if the defense can resemble something close to their performance last season, they could finish 2, or 3 in the AFC.
But the defense is a big IF. There are no guarantee’s a teams performance from one year to the next. (See the Packers defense from 2010 to 2011. When we lost bad mamba jamma Cullen Jenkins in the interior line.)
You would think…with a REAL top 5 defense, (not a Tommi ‘pretend’ top 5 defense) that Rodgers is good for 5-6 games over the likes of Wilson, Flacco, and White.
Now the Jets lost Shepherd and Rankins on the D-line so we’ll have to see how that unfolds.
We don’t need VETERAN WR’s Kevin. I understand you have a limited attention span, but try and stay focused. You don’t draft 6 WR’s in two years, and then say let’s bring in a veteran. Ok, you’re stupid enough to say that, most others are not. The upcoming 2023 season is about one thing. Is Jordan Love a franchise Quarterback? If the answer is yes, then everything else falls into place and we’re set for the next decade or better. We don’t need a veteran WR to pad Jordan Love’s stats if he can’t play. A veteran WR doesn’t make him read defenses faster or get rid of the ball quicker.
There is no question the defense was a big disappointment last year. Almost as big a disappointment as Aaron Rodgers throwing for 200 yards with on pick and one TD for 17 games. It was Christian Watson, Keisean Nixon, and the defense that turned the corner and put us into playoff contention the second half of the season. While your boyfriend was just along for the ride. Pointing fingers and blaming others as he went. And you were right there with him saying, “that’s right baby, this team doesn’t appreciate all you do!” So tell me Kevin who wins the home opener? Aaron Rodgers or Josh Allen? Considering little Erin, the best QB ever, couldn’t beat Kirk Cousins half the time. My money is on Buffalo. I’m predicting a very short honeymoon in New York.
Tommi, Tommi, Tommi….
Did you call me stupid?…lol
That’s the first time in 11 years here, someone called me that.
I get it, i expose you for being stupid so you..retaliate to make yourself feel better.
Well good for you little man, i wish i could give you a big hug…..and a cookie 🍪
Here’s the difference Tommi, when you’re being stupid, i illustrate your stupidity.
You don’t draft 6 WR’s in two years, and then say let’s bring in a veteran.
Take notes sweetheart….
You have a green pea (Love) starting QB and then you have Watson, Doubs, Toure, Grant DuBose, Jeff Cotton, Duece Watts, Malik Heath, Bo Melton, and Dontayvion Wicks.
Question snapperhead: If your goal was winning the SuperBowl (like Gute says is ALWAYS the goal in Green Bay) is this the wide receiver crew your going to win it with?
What if your goal was getting in the playoffs, is this your receiving crew?
Or is your ‘phantom’ top 5 Packer defense going to take the team to the playoffs so we don’t need receivers?
Princess, all those wide receivers, have caught a TOTAL of 1.118 yards, yes, that’s total…lol
5 of them have never caught a NFL pass.
But we don’t need a veteran receiver?
If that’s the case Gilligan, than you have absolutely no expectations of the Packers having a winning season, AND, no desire to do so.
The most experience you have with those 8 receivers is one year, one year experience, but we have no need for a veteran?
Probably not i guess, if you’re only expecting a 4 or 5 win season.
Enjoy losing, you should be used to it i imagine.
The voice of reason
Lol, when your entire WR core has a total of 1,118 CAREER receiving yards combined (less than one player can get in a single season)
Gutekunst- “This is not a rebuild”
Also Gutekunst- “Fuck those veterans. Let’s assemble the most inexperienced offense in the league! I can say whatever I want and Packer Nation will believe me!”
Isn’t the whole point of draft and develop to have your young players learn from guys who know what they are doing and have been there before? The most tenured WR’s on the roster are being watched to see if they can make a second year leap, and more than likely don’t even fully know the offense themselves yet.
At this point, who would they even sign and would it even matter? The Packers put themselves in this situation. They can’t keep their own guys around or just refuse to do so. I don’t want the Packers to suck and maybe things turn out better than expected this year, keep in mind I have zero expectations, but anyone who thinks this is going to be anything other than a “year of trying to figure things out” is delusional. The offense has less talent on it and fewer players that actually know the offense. Things aren’t going to magically fall together because Evil Erin is gone and Jordan Love is going to finally run LaFluer’s flawless offense the way it was always meant to be run. This offense has more question marks than the Riddlers’ sports coat.
I’ve said…i can think of only two reasons why Gute would let the receiver room get depleted of talent (over years and years since 2018)
I mean, i would like to think Gute is smart enough to know if you have a HOF QB give him some pass catching talent to work with.
Reason #1….He did it to spite Rodgers. Unlikely sure, but….it makes the most sense.
Reason #2….He just doesn’t realize it’s importance. The NFL isn’t a running league, it’s a passing league …right?
So this is now the end result of years of neglect, and or incompetence.
I’m not trying to give Gute a shot, but fuck…..really?
Rodgers paid the price for it after Adams left. Unfortunately, nbow Love has to pay the price, which is hardly ideal for him when he really needs to show up and prove himself this season.
Love is the one who is getting a raw deal in all of this.
I listed all the wide receivers, well guess what…the tight end position is worse.
Always good to hear from you Cheese.
Right, you don’t want to think that the GM is trying to spite a player but when an important position such as WR gets such a lack of attention for years and years what else can you think? It starts to become a legitimate thought because of how mismanaged the situation was.
Love is definitely getting a raw deal in this. No reliable veteran receiver to lean on. Just a bunch of green rookies and 2nd year guys who have to figure it out on their own because they have no mentor to watch and see how it’s done in season. And vice versa, all the WR’s are playing with a first year starting QB. They are ALL just figuring it out. Not an ideal situation. It has the potential to turn out decent, or… well you know. Either way it will be interesting. That post from down the hall hit the nail on the head.
So far Gute has run three of Green Bay’s best players out of town (Nelson, Adams, and Rodgers) and has yet to prove that he can replace any of them. When Watson and Doubs play an entire season and put up 1,000 yards then we can start talking about replacing past #1’s. Watson looks to have promise but that’s a pick that should have been made five years ago. Nobody knows what to think about Love. The Packers say they’re confident in him yet they signed Rodgers to a new deal halfway through Love’s rookie contract. Love himself said that was a WTF moment for him. Now the Packers are being forced to play their cards as opposed to losing those cards and looking like idiots. At least this path they have the opportunity to save face… or still look like idiots.
Good to hear from you too PF4L. It’s good to see there are still critical thinkers out there. It’s becoming a rare commodity.
A veteran WR doesn’t make him read defenses faster or get rid of the ball quicker.
Lmao…Nope Tommi, you’re right once again.
A veteran receiver could never make himself available to create a quicker pass option for Love. That could never happen!! lol
Just as, a veteran receiver couldn’t help him out with reading defenses (at all).
That would be..(sit down folks)…IMPOSSIBLE….right Princess? 😉
You calling someone (anyone) stupid, is hilarious.
Keep trying Gomer, never give up!! 🥱
We’ll wait for Tommi to get done pouting before we hear from him, while he thinks of something to say to spin this topic with a illogical, stupid response, as per usual.
An article down the hall talks about the expectations this season for Jordon Love.
Here is something i found, seemingly from a very, very smart Packer fan.
Excellent article Rex (topic and content)
I think to an extent, Love is getting a raw deal starting his first season.
The reasons are fairly obvious.
I’ve commented for years how the WR/TE room is getting depleted of talent.
It came to a head last season after Adams left and we had to rely on a couple of rookie draft picks for production.
That isn’t an ideal position for success, and i scratch my head wondering why Gute let it get to that point.
So now Gute/Love are faced with a wide receiver core that has amassed a total of 1,118 yards (career yards total). That’s the total of the 8 wide receivers signed.
Five of those receivers have never caught an NFL pass.
For tight ends…..the Packers have Austin Allen, Tyler Davis, Josiah Deguara, Nick Guggemos, Tucker Kraft, Camren McDonald, Luke Musgrave.
Those tight ends have a total of 432 CAREER yards, 5 of which, have never caught an NFL pass.
I realize i’m not an NFL GM, i’m just Joe 6 Pack Packer fan, but i’m going to go out on a limb and say this isn’t the best situation for a 1st round QB starting his first game when there are better than average expectations out of him.
I’m guessing that MLF will not utilize the full playbook with so much inexperience, as he will keep it simple for awhile while these players learn the playbook and get up to speed.
As Rex Shield contemplates, the Packer offense will most likely give the backs heavy duty to simple up the play calling for awhile.
If anyone thinks last season was a work in progress, hold on to your hat.
I feel bad for Love putting him in this position to start his career. He doesn’t have the weapons as Rodgers did in his first season, which Rex correctly mentioned.
Rex mentioned Rodgers 13 interceptions in his first season.
Keep in mind that 13 picks is Rodgers high point in his 15 years starting.
He’s only had double digit interceptions in 3 seasons, 13,11,12 respectfully.
Try to find ANY QB who can claim that.
I hope Love can show well this season despite this handicap.
We should still be able to see how he handles pressure and blitzes, as well as how he is reading defenses and going through his progressions.
No matter what happens this season, i’m giving Love a bit of a pass considering the state of his pass catching core.
This is not to say (at all), that some of the Packer pass catchers don’t have talent, or some won’t emerge to be stars.
We don’t know yet, they are all young and need experience on the field.
Like Love, they need to prove themselves on the field, like every other player in the NFL.
GO PACK GO!!
Isn’t the best situation for any first time starting QB period, 1st round status or not. It’s weird, I feel like this offensive line is actually better than the one Rodgers had early in his career. WR….. I mean sort of similar in terms of youth. Jennings was a 3rd year guy, Jones was 2nd, Nelson a rookie, but the big difference was Driver was a grizzled vet and had long been established. I tend to agree with you, I like the idea of your possible new franchise guy kind of growing with these young guys, but damn they could use a veteran in that group.
For the 4 readers still left here…..
I feel like we’ll have a new article within the next 2 days!!
I can feel it in my bones, yea baby!!
GO JP GO!!
Well, look at that, wrong again.
Just like that one time back in 2014 😏
Kevin and Cheese, they’ve got this all figured out! It’s like together they have one brain! Yes, Brian Gutekunst purposely undermined the WR position so much so that Aaron Rodgers was unable to win back to back MVP awards! Oh wait, he did! Never mind. Why, Gutekunst was trying to get fired! The team moved on from Jordy Nelson because he was old and done. But you two tell each other he could still play. While Davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers are no longer worth their bloated contracts. We had veteran WR’s last year in Lazard, Cobb, and Lewis. How did that work out? And your boyfriend took them to New York with him. By your astute player evaluation, the New York Jets now have “the best QB ever” and Rodgers hand picked veteran WR’s! So tell me, shall we just print the SB tickets now? The Jets have everything you two constantly bitch about but I don’t hear you predicting a SB. I’ll take Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs over any of the veteran shit that’s out there now. But you two play fantasy football with the roster.
Look everyone…Tommi’s back from pouting.
Ok, maybe that’s not fair, he could have been pulling double shifts at the golden arches.
If so, i apologies Tommi.
Ok, what golden nugget(s) can we find today from our beautiful Princess, hmmmm…lets see.
Davante Adams is no longer worth his bloated contract, Tommi tells us.
Did i get that right Tommi?
That one actually had me laughing at you again Tommi.
Just when you think Tommi can’t write anything dumber than the Packers don’t need a veteran receiver. He blows the top off it.
I guess in Tommy’s intelligent football mind, D. Adams catching 1,516 yards, with a
15.2 average and…14 touchdowns isn’t worth 23.6 million?
Is that right Tommi?
Just curious Princes, what is that kind of production worth? You know everything right?
Is it worth 2 million a year, 5 mill, or 10 million, like MVS and Lazard got?
For 10 million, MVS had 687 yards and 2 TD’s..what a bargain compared to Adams!!
It must make Tommi wonder how Adams was named 1st team All-Pro last season.
Perplexing, right Tommi?
How did that happen when he underperformed his contract as professed by our own NFL guru….any thoughts Tommi?
The word stupid, isn’t strong enough to describe you here Tommi.
“We had veteran WR’s last year in Lazard, Cobb, and Lewis. How did that work out?” – Tommi
Not good Gute!!
Especially since none of them are #1, or even #2 receivers.
Lazard has 2,236 yards in his career.
Last season Adams had over 1500 yards and 14 TD’s
Is Cobb a #3 or #4 receiver. Not sure, but Gute signed him.
Cobb has averaged 510 yards the last 3 seasons and 3 Td’s a season.
Adams has averaged over 1,480 yards the last 3 seasons and over 14 TD’s a season. But Adams isn’t worth his bloated salary Princess?
We won’t discuss Lewis because..
A) He isn’t a Jet
B) Tommi lied about him going to New York (Big surprise).
C) Gute signed him and he averages 115 yards a season and 1.1 touchdowns a season.
That’s what Gute thinks was worth 4 million last season, or…Gute paid him
But Adams wasn’t worth his money, he didn’t earn it, right Princess?
Tommi, Tommi, Tommi……
Furthermore more ladies. You give Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady, Davante Adams and Allen Lazard as their WR’s and they’ll win you a SB. Hell, Mahomes won a SB with MVS and a high ankle sprain. And he came from behind to do so. Aaron Rodgers couldn’t do that in your wildest Aaron Rodgers wet dream. Rodgers playoff record and beloved stats tell the story of a QB that chokes in the playoffs while the truly great QB’s find a way. A QB you must constantly make excuses and play the blame game for even after he’s long gone.
Last year we were a veteran team and it didn’t mean Jack shit. We still lost 9 games and missed the playoffs. So now you’re saying being young is a bad thing? Sure it is. While Aaron Rodgers was talking book clubs and right wing conspiracies in the off season and preseason, Jordan Love was working with Watson, Doubs, and Toure. Doubs even came out here to California to work with Love this offseason. You don’t hear Love crying for veteran WR’s. But of course Mutt and Jeff know better. You might want to let this one play out before you two embarrass yourself. Although that’s never stopped you before.
” You might want to let this one play out before you two embarrass yourself.” – Tommi
This from the man who told us Royce Newman is a 10 year NFL starter.
Tommi knows, he is an expert at embarrassing himself.
“The team moved on from Jordy Nelson because he was old and done.”
Nelson lead the league in TD’s before Brett Hundley stepped on the field. Old and done, or a victim of Hundley’s lack of awareness? They then continued to sign Jimmy Graham, who’s a whole six months younger than Nelson, for the same price and about 10% of the production. Sounds like a wise move hey there Gomer.
“While Davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers are no longer worth their bloated contracts”
Adams just went All Pro with a bunch of John Doe’s at QB in Vegas. Rodgers is one year removed from back-to-back MVP’s. Gutekunst tried to keep both of them last year but Adams had enough of the front office’s BS. After that it didn’t make any sense to keep Rodgers around so Gute signed him to a massive deal and kept him around for another year anyway.
“We had veteran WR’s last year in Lazard, Cobb, and Lewis.”
Sorry, Lazard is a solid #3 at best. Not bad for an UDFA that was plucked off of Jacksonville’s practice squad but not someone you want to rely on being your top guy. Cobb is an old reliable gadget guy that is also no better than a #3 and was never more than a #2 even in his prime. Lewis was mostly used for blocking and locker room leadership, not his game changing on field production. I’d be asking to keep my friends around too if the GM refused to pick up any WR’s other than late round developmental projects.
Excellent points Cheese.
But here’s the problem….
I’m not sure where we have a better chance with Tommi.
Does Tommi have a better chance of comprehending your comments, or do Murphy/Gutes Packers have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl this season, or how about the chance of Royce Newman being a 10 year starter in the NFL.
Quite the Quandary.
Tom M 13 hours ago
Furthermore more ladies.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
“Excellent post Cheese?” Kevin sucking Cheese’s dick? Who could have seen that coming? Davante Adams was traded for and given a 140 million dollar contract to make Derek Carr and the Raiders a playoff team. How did that work out? It worked so well Derek Carr was cut and replaced by Jimmy G who can’t stay healthy and even if he could, he still couldn’t beat Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert. He can beat Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs so there’s that. These WR trades never work. It didn’t work when Arizona traded for DeAndre Hopkins and then paid him 25 million per season and it didn’t work for the Raiders. But these deals make headlines and get talked about yet always end in disaster. And now the Raiders have 30 year old, disgruntled, stat whore, Davante Adams, on a team going nowhere. That’s a traded they’d love to have back. Many, many years ago, then HC and GM Bart Starr made a similar such trade for WR John Jefferson giving up first round picks and big money to the San Diego Chargers. Lynn Dickey already had James Lofton and Paul Coffman. What the team needed was defense. No one remembers anyone’s stats from that trade but everyone can’t forget how shitty we were in the late 70’s, early 80’s. Davante Adams career will end up like DeAndre Hopkins and John Jefferson. When you play only for money and stats, don’t complain if that’s all you get.
Randall Cobb was so impressive last year he couldn’t beat out two rookies and a possession WR in Allen Lazard. Leaving him 4th on the depth chart but number one on washing Aaron’s back in the post game shower. Yes, no rookie could ever duplicate such massive numbers as Cobb put up last year. As for Jordy, 34 year old WR’s are just about as popular as 30 year old running backs in the NFL. But if you two want to pretend that Jordy had many more productive seasons when 32 GM’s said no, live the fantasy ladies. You also think Aaron Rodgers is the greatest QB ever! Dream on girls….
“That’s a traded they’d love to have back.” – My hero
Has your Grandmother been disappointed in you your whole life?
I’m just assuming she raised you.
That’s right Kevin. The Las Vegas Raiders would have been better served by keeping their draft picks and drafting Quay Walker to fix that horrendous defense and then trading up in the second round to get Christian Watson. Brian Gutekunst has already won that trade. I know you and Cheese aren’t sold on Watson or Romeo Doubs but neither one of you could recognize NFL talent if it were to bite you on your big fat Wisconsin ass. The Arizona Cardinals have been trying to unload DeAndre Hopkins and his contract for at least a year with no takers. Look for the Raiders to try and peddle Davante Adams with similar results next year if the Raiders playoff drought continues.
Consider the New York Jets. Both fans and management demand no less than a deep playoff run from Aaron Rodgers. Anything less will be an enormous disappointment. Rodgers can’t claim he’s the goat if he throws 35 TD’s and 5 picks and the Jets finish 8-9 and miss the playoffs. That shit isn’t going to cut it. Not unlike Davante’s stats and no playoffs for the Raiders. Stats and awards have never mattered as much as you think they do. These trades are made with the expectation of making the playoffs, not winning individual awards. But this is a concept above your comprehension.
Thanks for the education!!
I take notes!! 😮
Now, about that 1/4 pounder with cheese.
No pickles please.
“I know you and Cheese aren’t sold on Watson or Romeo Doubs but neither one of you could recognize NFL talent if it were to bite you on your big fat Wisconsin ass.”
I never said that they didn’t have potential numb nuts. You’re the one calling them the second coming of Randy Moss/ Greg Jennings before either one of them has been able to get on the field for an entire season. I said let’s wait until one of them has a 1,000 yard season before that’s even a topic of discussion. But no, Nostradomus here wants to talk about all of Gute’s picks like they’re the second coming of (insert Hall of Famer) so years later he can pretend like he knew it was going to happen so he can stroke his ego like Pee-Wee Herman.
” Davante Adams was traded for and given a 140 million dollar contract to make Derek Carr and the Raiders a playoff team. How did that work out?”
“That shit isn’t going to cut it. Not unlike Davante’s stats and no playoffs for the Raiders.”
So it’s Davante’s fault they didn’t make the play-offs? Sure sounds like he did his part by going All-Pro. Maybe they didn’t make the play-offs because they didn’t have a complete team that played complimentary football. Or maybe it was because Davante didn’t have 3,000 yards and 30 TD’s. Clearly the guy isn’t doing enough. The rest of the team was built and ready to go the SB so how dare Adams put up those selfish stats. Any player who wins an award who’s team doesn’t win the SB is just a selfish diva who should have been focusing more on the team by putting up less stats.
Exactly, maybe the Raiders didn’t make the playoffs because they are the…Raiders.
Maybe the comments by Tommi are illogical and non sensical because they are written by….Tommi.
Maybe Tommi thinks Davante Adams should have played defense also, so the Raiders made the playoffs.
That is a perfect example of …Tommi logic.
Oh look, another example of the Packers front office trying to play hard ball, back peddling, and then ending up in a worse off situation than if they would have just agreed to the original situation.
So the Packers offered Adams south of $20 million in 2021, but then were willing to match a $28.25 million in 2022. I’m not saying that at the time I supported making Adams the highest paid WR in the league but then why the change of heart a year later and over an $8 million increase in offer? Was it because the FO realized they had no one behind Davante to take his place? The FO has this habit of pissing players off and then back peddling to make up for the stupid decisions they made earlier. Much like drafting Jordan Love and then two years later giving Rodgers a new contract even though he had no #1 or #2 WR. Or like when Jared Cook wanted to be with the Packers, but instead GB thought they were being clever and went and signed Martellus Bennett instead. How did that work out? 8 games later thay were looking for another tight end. Then they signed Jimmy Graham who was supposedly going to fill the shoes of #1 TE AND #1 WR. He ended up filling neither.
Adams got sick of the Packers dicking him around and left. If the Packers want to play hard ball that’s fine but they better make sure they have a WR on deck that can replace the guy that’s leaving. They did not, and that is what brought on the situation they had last season, and even this season with the most inexperienced offense in the league.
It’s like the FO was oblivous to the fact Adams could be gone. “Oh, he will get over it. He’ll eventually take a hometown discount to play with his buddy.” And if they truly weren’t willing to make him the highest paid WR that’s fine. But if they were, don’t piss him off, back peddle, and then offer top dollar just because someone else was willing to pay it.
Wow, nearly 80 posts on this one thread. Mostly me, Kevin, and Cheese talking shit to each other but still….
Look Cheese, I don’t need to see 1,000 yards receiving to know Watson and Doubs can play. And you didn’t need to see it from Greg Jennings either. I’m not saying Davante Adams isn’t a great player. What I’m saying is the money could have been better spent elsewhere. Like on the defense. What I’ve said over and over is WR’s aren’t that hard to find. Paying 140 million for even a great one isn’t smart. Brian Gutekunst understands this. You two obviously don’t. Paying QB money for guys like Adams and Hopkins never works. Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady can win it all with a lot less at WR. The theory goes in Las Vegas and Arizona: we may not have Mahomes or Brady but we’ve got Davante Adams and DeAndre Hopkins to elevate lesser QB’s like Derek Carr and Kyler Murray. This represents flawed thinking in my view. The way you beat Mahomes and Brady is with a great defense and a relentless pass rush. Consider your beloved Aaron Rodgers. He always struggled facing an elite defense yet would win most shoot outs. It’s why you always draft defense in the first round unless it’s QB or LT. And defense should be where you spend the bulk of your free agent money unless it’s QB or LT. But the best QB’s and LT’s never make it to free agency yet the best WR’s almost always do. Teams tell you what they prioritize and WR’s isn’t one of them. At least the good teams do.
So if you hit and miss on receivers for years, and you deplete your talent in the process. It’s ok, because wide receivers can be found ….anywhere.
” What I’ve said over and over is WR’s aren’t that hard to find. Paying 140 million for even a great one isn’t smart. Brian Gutekunst understands this. You two obviously don’t”
Gutekunst understands it so well that he that he offered to make Davante the highest paid WR in the league by matching the Raiders offer. The only reason it didn’t happen in GB is because Adams made that decision for them after they jerked him around for so long. This move didn’t happen because Gute is a wise sage. It happened because they mismanaged the situation.
The Packers never had any intention of paying Adams 28 million per season Cheese. If they did, they’d have made that offer long before hand. It wasn’t until he had made his decision to leave for the Raiders that they made a half hearted attempt at a competitive offer. And that was strictly to appease Rodgers to say, look, we tried. Management was also under contract negotiations with Rodgers at the time. Simply economics Cheese says you cannot spend half your cap on two players just so they can continue to stat whore together. Rodgers at 50 million per and Adams at 28 million per. You can keep one, but not both. And you always keep the QB. Aaron Rodgers could have signed a team friendly deal like Mahomes or Brady allowing more cap space for Adams. He refused. Davante Adams could have taken a page from Aaron Jones playbook who believes it’s a blessing and a privilege to be a Packer. But Adams was hell bent on being a Raider. Careful for what you wish for. Trading Davante Adams was absolutely the right call. Just like trading Aaron Rodgers was absolutely the right call. We had gone as far as both players could take us. It was time to move on from both.
“The Packers never had any intention of paying Adams 28 million per season Cheese.” “they made a half hearted attempt at a competitive offer.”
You don’t make a half hearted attempt with a $28 million offer. Stop twisting this into something it was not.
I never said that getting rid of Davante was the wrong thing to do or that paying him that kind of money was the right thing. If they were going to move on, then have a plan for someone to take his place. They did not. Instead, they waffled, back peddled, made an offer that Adams didn’t want and were stuck with an offense that relied on a bunch of rookies. That is on the mismanagement of the front office.
I’m not saying Davante Adams isn’t a great player. What I’m saying is the money could have been better spent elsewhere. Like on the defense. What I’ve said over and over is WR’s aren’t that hard to find. Unless you’re Brian Gutekunst.
Tommy, have you ever considered sending your resume into the Raiders, sounds to me you’d be a one interview hire.
The Packers could have used you also, especially as you say “wide receivers could be found anywhere”.
Where were you from 2018-2022?
Question Tommy….Are the 1/4 lb patty’s fresh or frozen when they are grilled?
“If only the Packers had shown him the same respect in the summer of 2021.” – Freddie Boston
That seems to be the common denominator in a lot of high profile former Packer players.
In Gute/Murphy we Trust
Tom M 3 days ago
That’s right Kevin. The Las Vegas Raiders would have been better served by keeping their draft picks and drafting Quay Walker to fix that horrendous defense.
LOL…Yes, because Walker could have fixed that defense?
PFF proves that with their 51.7 grade on Walkers performance.
As a bonus, Walker could have provided the Raiders with a player capable of doing really dumb shit on the field (matching his wonderlic score) and getting kicked out of games for….stupidity.
Yes killer….that would have fixed the Raiders defense.
As far as Quay…a grade of 51.7 isn’t exactly what you’re looking for from a 1st round draft pick.
One of the reasons why the Packers have eight 1st round picks on defense and sits in the middle of the NFL pack.
Tommi….how come we don’t hear about our elite top 5 defense from you, that you couldn’t stop harping about? (“we don’t need receivers!!!”)
You weren’t wrong, were you?
Because you’ve made it clear, you know everything.
Tell us more about Royce being a 10 year starter, i can never get enough of your ‘elite’ wisdom.
Hell…you might as well tell us how many NFL teams are going to be lining up to sign Kevin King!! 😆
In Gute we Trust!!
I just read this morning that Mike Florio from NBC sports is reporting that the Raiders could be looking to trade Davante Adams after June 1st. How can this be? Both Cheese and Kevin proudly and triumphantly proclaimed Adams was a pro bowl player last year! They could have gone 7-10 without him. Or whatever their record was. Look for the Raiders, if they can find a taker which I highly doubt, to receive pennies on their draft dollar for the now 30 year old malcontent. The fact the Raiders are even considering trading Adams after just one season is public admission the trade and contract was a mistake. The fact the Adams made the pro bowl won’t save Josh McDaniels job. Making the playoffs will.
As for Quay Walker, this represents the fundamental difference between you and I, Kevin. When I see Quay Walker play I see an enormously talented, sideline to sideline LB. A player, if he can learn to control his emotions, and that comes with maturity, could be special. You on the other hand don’t have a clue what you’re seeing so you have to let PFF tell you what to think. Like everything else, we’ll revisit Quay Walker as season two progresses. We’ll see if he, along with Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs, who our two resident talent evaluators (Cheese and Kevin) are on the fence because PFF tells them to be, make a second year jump.
“How can this be?” – killer
“Mike Florio from NBC sports is reporting that the Raiders could be looking to trade Davante Adams” ?
In other words, it could be, it’s not happening.
Or does “could be” a definite 100% certainty in Tommi’s fantasyland.
You’re commenting on Mike Florio’s “could be”?
The world “could be” ending tomorrow.
The Milwaukee Bucks could be raffling off their franchise at a $100 a ticket.
It “could be” i have the winning numbers for Powerball.
Comment on something real Tommi, do something different.
Holy shit this place is fucking dead. No new articles since the last time I was here after the draft. Nothing about GB hosting the draft, which is huge. For the fanbase, the local and state economy, for football fans in general. I know some bears fans, as bitter of rivals as they are, that think it’s pretty damn cool.
I would offer up my time, but I honestly keep pretty damn busy with a social life, reading, my garden, tending to 2 acres, work, gaming, etc.
This is no surprise, a wise man once came in here awhile ago and said….
“This is what a dying website looks like” – Savage 57
Although i knew it was dying and stated so many times, that one line was the best and i wish i thought of it.
I recommended to JP that he should sell this site, or hand the keys over to someone who gives a ….
Namely Rob, Paul Edwards, or maybe Howard.
Oh well, i’m glad i was around for the Monty years when it had a pulse.
100% convinced the packers bought this place through back channels with the sole intention of phasing it out since Monty got into shit with them.
Lol, you might be on to something there Stig.
Or a certain someone was planted here to run everyone off of the site with their ridiculous BS.
Oh the fun theories we could come up with… even if none of them were actually true the end result is still the same-
It would be hilarious if we found out Killer/Tommi was actually Brian Gutekunst.
But logic dictates even Gute couldn’t write all that stupid shit Tommi wrote.
I have to give props to (cough) Mark Murphy.
Yea, you read that right.
Murphy was interviewed on Kuhns show on ‘The Game’.
Obviously the topic was landing the NFL draft.
He obviously gets props for landing the draft.
To Murphy’s credit, when given the opportunity by Kuhn, Murphy didn’t pat himself on the back too much.
The other take away i got was that there aren’t definite plans in place, namely where they are going to put the stage.
Murphy said that was up to the NFL.
This is great for Green Bay, who i believe will be busting at the seams accommodating and entertaining so many people.
It will be interesting to see some thoughts and reviews from the participants, and the fans post draft.
If you want to attend, better get on the phone for hotel rooms, if it’s not too late already.
I’d imagine a lot of people doing that as soon as it was announced.
Kudos to the Packers, that was a good get.
200,000 plus are expected. You’ll be seeing hotel rooms going all the way through the Fox Valley and down south to Fond du Lac, Manitowoc, Sheboygan and maybe even Milwaukee. I would bet Wausau, Stevens Point and Waupaca to the west as well. A good comparison for hoteliers is what is the impact of the EAA. This will be a size similar crowd so the expected lodging demands will be much the same.
I live 15 miles east of Stevens Point and I can make it to Lambeau Field in about an hour and a half or less. In big city metro areas that is sometimes not even a cross-town commute. Hell, try driving anywhere on the DC Beltway before 10 AM. That place is a parking lot. Distance lodging in Wisconsin will not be a hardship at all for those wanting to come attend.
Great deal for Lambeau Field, the Packers, and the City of Green Bay!
Good points Mitch, i would imagine Merrill, Tomahawk, even the Minocqua area might see some people come.
I hope the Packers go all out, maybe hiring name bands, etc for entertainment. These people want something to do at night. They want entertainment.
I think (besides all the businesses) a huge winner in this is going to be Oneida Radisson Hotel and casino.
These people have a ton of cash and a lot of them love to gamble.
I would imagine they are going to have top notch entertainment lined up as well.
What a great thing for Green Bay and Wisconsin and the Packers.
I’m proud as a Packer fan and a Wisconsinite that we get to show off to the NFL world worldwide.
What makes it special is, this takes place in a small City of only a 100,000 people.
I think this speaks volumes of how the NFL values the Green Bay Packers (as it should).
Proud to be a Packer Fan!!!!!!
Now….what are we going to do about this fucking website?
Here we are, hitting 100 comments!!!
This was made possible by a few loyal, yet misguided, naive, Green Packer Bay Packer fans (and Tommi).
But it was truly made possible by the fact there hasn’t been a new article for over 3 weeks.
GO JP GO!!!
“This is what a dying website looks like” – Savage 57
I sincerely hope JP is better at his regular job, than owning and running this website, or his family will starve.
Holy shit, you suck at this.
Who is going to do the eulogy?
I nominate Killer, as he should be thankful that JP didn’t have the good sense to nip him in the bud (like i suggested) after changing his username to Tom M.
As long as you’re around running your mouth Kevin, who needs to post? DeAndre Hopkins released by the Cardinals. Davante Adams faces legal charges and possible suspension over his altercation with a photographer. More evidence that these high profile, big money WR’s aren’t worth the headache let alone the money they demand. I don’t care how many pro bowls they go to, they’re simply not worth the money when your the Cardinals or the Raiders. Cheese lamenting that Gutekunst should have kept Adams shows a lack of awareness usually only exhibited by Kevin. Likely the same fate awaits Rodgers in New York that now faces Adams in the Las Vegas. A trade the team now regrets.
Tom M 2 seconds ago
“Cheese lamenting that Gutekunst should have kept Adams shows a lack of awareness usually only exhibited by Kevin.”
Cheese 1 week ago
“I never said that getting rid of Davante was the wrong thing to do or that paying him that kind of money was the right thing. If they were going to move on, then have a plan for someone to take his place. They did not.”
Lack of awareness? Take a look in the mirror. Holy crap are you dumb.
Unlike when Jordy left, Gute had a plan then (i guess). Immediately sign Jimmy Graham and make him the highest paid tight end in the league 5 years after his prime.
In Gute we Trust
What could go wrong?
Do I need to make a post just to see new comments or is it taking 24+ hours for posts to appear again?
Well, that answers that. I needed to make a new post just to be able to see a comment that was made yesterday.
Tommi’s speciality, even in his ‘killer’ days, was being ‘next level’ stupid.
But what do have we here, Scottie Pippen giving Tommi a run for his money.
Lets see who wins this contest, shall we.
“LeBron will be the greatest statistical guy to ever play the game of basketball, and there’s no comparison to him. None. So does that make him the greatest player to ever play the game? I’ll leave that up for [debate], because I don’t believe that there’s a great player. Because our game is a team game, and one player can’t do it. I seen Michael Jordan play before I came to play with the Bulls. You guys seen him play. He’s a horrible player, he was horrible to play with. He was all one on one, he’s shooting bad shots. And all of a sudden, we become a team and we start winning, everybody forgot who he was.” – Scottie Pippen (2023)
Then we have this blast from the past coming from Pippen.
“There is no game i would ever play in and pick Lebron James over Michael Jordan. Not if i’m trying to win. I’m not going to give up my teammate who i won 6 Championships with and go and start fishing in a pond thinking i’m going to catch a bigger and better fish” – Scottie Pippen (2018)
Or, as this writer pulls up another Pippen quote….
“Michael Jordan was the greatest to ever put on shoes and play in our game, no doubt about it.” – Pippen (2018) ESPN.
And the winner of the Stupidity Title and STILL reigning Champion…..Tom M!!
Although Pippen gets honorable mention for one hell of a try.