Packer fans have had the luxury of rooting for several impressive and powerful offenses over the last 28 years. We like to think of those times as the era of the two all-star quarterbacks: Brett Favre (1992-2007) and Aaron Rodgers (2008-2020). Perhaps though, it makes more sense to think of it being the era of the West Coast Offense, as run by head coaches Mike Holmgren (1992-2998), Mike Sherman (2000-2005), and Mike McCarthy (2006-2018).
Well, Packer fans, that era is over in Green Bay. With the hiring of Matt LaFleur in 2019, the transition to a new offensive philosophy began. While the transition was not greatly noticed in Matt’s first year, it progressed in 2020 to the point that Green Bay became the NFL’s highest scoring team. The 2021 season, however, will mark the first time that the new offense will be fully installed and operating. Personnel-wise, 2021 might be an uncertain time, but scheme-wise it’s a time of immense promise and potential. Embrace it!
The new offense is often called a wide zone offense. It’s actually been around for a while, and it’s continually undergoing change and refinement. Mike Shanahan, a primary architect of the scheme, took it to its peak in 1997 and 1998, when the Broncos dethroned Green Bay as Super Bowl champ in the Super Bowl game played in 1998, and when the Broncs again reigned supreme in the game played in 1999 (Super Bowl XXXIII).
Coach Shanahan’s ascension as the Broncos’ head coach went like this: regular season record of 8-8 in 1995, then 13-3 in 1996, then 12-4 in 1997, and finally 14-2 in 1998. After winning two straight SBs following the 1997 and 1998 seasons, Shanahan went 6-10 in 1999. He then remained in Denver for nine more years, but never again made it to the Super Bowl. In fact, in his final three years there he never made it to the playoffs. Did he lack the personnel, or did the league find ways to thwart his innovative schemes?
Though QB John Elway was named the MVP in that second Super Bowl victory, it was Terrell Davis who was the MVP in the first game. Davis was the dominant force for this offense in both years. In seven post-season games in those two years, he rushed for 1,149 yards, averaging over six yards per carry, and an absurd 164 yards rushing per contest over those seven playoff games. While the West Coast offense relies on lots of short passes, the foundation of the Shanahan offense is a run-heavy strategy.
After being named San Francisco’s head coach in 2017, Kyle Shanihan followed in his father’s footsteps by rapidly transforming an ordinary-looking roster into an offensive juggernaut. After going 6-10 and 4-12 in his first two years as the 49ers’ coach, in 2019 he took his team straight to the Super Bowl. He put in place many of his father’s schemes and beliefs. He turned four unacclaimed running backs and an average-performing quarterback (Jimmy Garoppolo) into (temporary) superstars. That lineup pummeled the Packers in the playoffs – only to be beaten by the Chiefs, 31 to 20, in the ensuing Super Bowl.
Last year Jimmy G only went 3-3 on the season and he was actually benched for a time in favor of C.J. Beathard. By early November Garoppolo went on injured reserve, and then in April the Niners traded up to get the third overall draft pick – and used it to draft Garoppolo’s likely replacement, North Dakota State’s Trey Lance. Last year Shanahan and the Niners were decimated by injuries – it will be interesting to see if they can get that dynamic offense back on track with a healthier roster.
The same can be said of the Rams. The wide zone offense again rose to the forefront, in, L.A., from 2017 through 2020, when boy genius and Shanahan disciple Sean McVay led the Rams into the playoffs three of the last four years. In 2018, McVay’s team made it to the Super Bowl, but his offense failed him in a Super Bowl loss, 13 to 3, to the Patriots.
Currently, I believe that one-fourth of NFL teams have adopted. Or are trying to, Shanahan’s offensive concepts.
As stated earlier, in LaFleur’s first year as head coach, Green Bay’s offense wasn’t very different than all of those Mike McCarthy teams. In 2020, however, LaFleur’s guys began to resemble what Mike Shanahan envisioned. There was more emphasis on the run game, more play action, more misdirection, and more game plan options.
Despite the Pack’s salary cap distress, in March they re-signed Aaron Jones. The year before, in the second round they got a versatile and powerful accompaniment to Jones in A.J. Dillon – who could well be the game’s next dominant rusher – along the lines of the Titan’s Derrick Henry. These two personnel moves were surely made with the shift to a run-dominant offensive scheme in mind.
The Packers are also stacked with promising run blockers: David Bakhtiari, Billy Turner, and Elgton Jenkins are top-notch, and second-round pick Josh Myers, out of Ohio State, is already penciled in as the starting center. A host of other up-and-coming guys are also in the mix for playing time, including Lucan Patrick, Jon Runyan, Yosh Nijman, Simon Stepaniak, Royce Newman (4th-rounder), and Ben Braden. Green Bay has extraordinary depth in its O-line. Furthermore, in his very first year as head coach, La Fleur immediately switched his O-line over to the zone blocking approach, which is a key component of the wide zone attack.
The makeup of the roster been tailor-made for the Shanahan offense in other ways as well. The Pack has a stable of tight ends who are willing and adept run and pass blockers. There’s Big Bob Tonyan, scond-round pick Josiah Deguara, third-rounder Jace Sternberger, Dominique Dafney and blocker extraordinaire Marcedes Lewis.
Apparently by design, the Packers have also gone all-in for large receivers, and nearly every one of them is a fine run blocker; the list includes Allen Lazard, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Devin Funchess, Juwann Winfree, and Equanimeous St. Brown, all of whom are at least 6’3” and 214 pounds.
Which brings us to the gadget guy. Going back at least four years, the Packers have failed to find a player who excels at running jet sweeps, doing reverses, grabbing screen passes, getting open as a slot receiver, and being a skilled yards-after-catch guy – key components in the team’s new offense. In absolutely stealing Amari Rodgers in the third round of the draft, Green Bay might have finally found the man they’ve been looking for.
Amari enters the pros with four solid years of top-flight college experience at powerhouse Clemson, culminating in being the 2020 college leader in receptions, second in passing yardage, and third in touchdowns. He’s extremely quick and can stop on a dime. Though only 5’10”, he’s a sturdy 212 pounds. Amari is NFL-ready right now. One might even argue that Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence would not have been chosen with the first pick in the draft without Amari’s help.
If Rodgers lives up to the hopes the Pack has for him, he’ll turn out to be GM Gutekunst’s best draft selection to date.
There’s one final player who should be mentioned as being a strong fit in the Shanahan offense: QB Jordan Love. The Packers obviously saw the qualities they were looking for in a QB to one day run the offense that the team has spent three years implementing.
Instead of worrying over the next five weeks over whose going to be under center for Green Bay in September, how about anticipating just how good the Pack’s offense will be executing Shanahan’s schemes – and with all of the above pieces in place?
The Packers selected Matt LaFleur because they (correctly) felt he was the best person to make the switch from a West Coast to the wide (or inside) zone offense. So far, their entrusting LaFleur with this mission is off to a rip-roaring start. The upcoming season, however, should be when Green Bay’s new offensive scheme comes into full and glorious bloom. Go Pack Go!
Thanks again for the work you put into bringing new (and needed!) material for this site. It is appreciated.
Let’s do hope that all the above stated hopes and dreams for this upcoming season and this offense can bring something to fruition before the salary cap meltdown ensues.
Everyone have a great 4th of July. God bless the USA!
Well…if we get to the Super Bowl under Shanahan’s offense.
Lets hope if we’re up 28-3 like the Falcons were were in SB LI, that we have the good sense not to leave so much time on the play clock on every offensive play.
Like when Shanahan and LaFleur left about 15 seconds on the play clock instead of letting it run down.
But no……instead of eating clock and winning the SB.
The Falcons offensive brain trust were playing the clock as if they were the ones 25 points behind.
It’s amazing….that no one on the Falcons sideline, seemed to have a clue how to play the clock.
If the Falcons ate up clock, there is almost no way the Patriots can run enough plays to tie the game.
There was a 17 minute differential in time of possession. That’s unheard of. But most of it was their own doing.
Granted, their 3rd down conversion rate was awful, and the Falcon defense didn’t step up.
But that doesn’t negate the fact that better clock management wins that game. Especially when you are up 28-3 with less than 2 quarters left.
Eat clock, run the ball = Super Bowl win.
But no….not for Shanahan’s offense.
Now….. after reading this article…This team is destined to win a bunch of Super Bowls post Aaron Rodgers.
Seems everything is perfect and all the stars align once Rodgers is gone.
3 or 4 SB’s before decades end? I think so.
Speaking of clock management, I can think of another occasion when a team had a game all sown up but foolishly allowed the opposition to come back and have a a great chance to win. The opposition: the Packers. The team: the Buccaneers. The game: the most recent game the Packers played. With little over a minute gone in the second half, the Pack was out of it, behind 28-10. Tom Brady kept right on throwing, however, and quickly served up three interceptions. I never heard much criticism, however, of Brady, Bruce Ariens, or the Bucs.
Well….the Bucs won that game because Brady made plays when he needed to.
And because their defense brought the heat, same with the SB game.
Brady didn’t have a great game because of the picks, but his defense was good enough to overcome it.
Remember…Big Ben won a SB throwing 0 TD’s and 2 picks, with a QB rating of 22,6.
Although i’m unsure what point you’re trying to make about criticizing Bradys picks after winning the game, it’s hard to criticize a 44 year old QB who has won 7 Super Bowls.
He’s not always perfect, nor is Rodgers.
I will say it was damn nice to see Jaire pick off a couple passes, he needs those type of plays to get recognized as a total difference maker. He keeps that up and you’ll hear early talk about a potential HOF’er in our midst. He’s that good.
One thing the Bucs and Ariens were smart enough to do, they gave Brady input and a voice, and brought in two players he wanted.
Not to mention drafting a much needed tackle in the 1st round who not only started, but played every snap and only gave up one sack and had a PFF grade of 81.5 his rookie season.
Sure, they could have drafted Brady’s successor, but they had a different goal.
They put a team together (as a team), and won the Super Bowl.
So NO….I’m not criticizing the Bucs, Brady, or Ariens…i’d sound like a damn fool if i did,
Again…Super Bowls are won….from the top down.
When tinker bell goes 4/11/54 in the 4th quarter of the NFCC game. That’s on the self proclaimed GOAT. Gutekunst and Murphy can’t suit up and play for him. He either gets it done or he doesn’t. He didn’t. He has to take ownership of that. Instead we get 6 months about how his feelings are hurt. What a pussy!
Straight from the kitty’s mouth.
Don’t conflate 4 for 11 with the fact that Rodgers was running for his life the whole 4th quarter because Tampa Bay’s Defensive players outplayed Green Bay’s O linemen. Why don’t you COMPARE P. Mahomes SB play against that same Tampa Bay swarming D. Two of the best pair of ILB’s I’ve watched play together in years. Neither QB1 had much opportunity to do what they do best. But that blows up your weak position then doesn’t it? ESPECIALLY because Rodgers actually performed much better than Mahomes did against the same pressure. Lol!
Mahomes 52.3 passer rating
26-49 270 yd’s
TD’s = 0
INT’s = 2
Rodgers vs the same defense;
Rodgers 101.6 passer rating
33-48 346 yd’s
TD’s = 3
INT’s = 1
So, with your inane attempt at logic, Kansas City should probably MOVE ON from Mahomes as well . . . because you just know! right? Don’t let the facts get in your way while doing damage control for 1265 Lombardi right? Because Packer fans are just stupid right?
According to Tinker Bell Tommy logic….
That Super Bowl loss was on Mahomes.
Mark Donovan and Brett Veach can’t suit up and play for him. He either gets it done or he doesn’t. He didn’t.
Profound….not letting that higher education go to waste.
Tell us more Tommy….lol
I noticed a link to an old article here written by Rob about McCarthy’s shortcomings.
Fantastic read, fantastic quotes by others, inside, and outside the organization.
Some Rodgers haters like to blame Rodgers for McCarthy’s termination.
Some going so far saying Rodgers played badly, to get McCarthy fired.
I don’t think that’s how Rodgers operates on the field.
Did Rodgers have problems with McCarthys offense, absolutely.
Has it ever been considered that he had good reason?
Aaron Rodgers didn’t get McCarthy fired, Mike McCarthy got McCarthy fired.
Remember when he was redoing the playbook starting at page 1?
Sure Mike…lol….never happened..
Anyway..great piece Rob…great quotes.
Remember this McCarthy classic quote at a press conference…..
“I don’t know why the hell I have to come in here and answer questions about what you think went wrong on offense.”
The epitome of the “no accountability” pompous, arrogant atmosphere at 1265 Lombardi Ave.
There were plenty of flags back in those days to terminate McCarthy.
Kudos to Jason for selecting the photo of Aaron Jones for the posting. It captures the very essence of NFL football at its best. You’ve got three Rams linemen in the act of battling three Packers blockers (I’m not sure who’s who) – and their faces show what it’s like working in the trenches. Though I can’t see any opening, Jones somehow found one and squirted through it. This was the first offensive play of the second half – and the key play of the game – and Jones went for 60 yards. The under-sized running back also capped off the six-play drive by scoring on a one-yard run, making the score 25 to 10. This was the play that propelled GB into the conference finals. Just a great action shot! It explains why Green Bay found a way to re-sign Aaron Jones to four more years!
The Kyle Shanahan/Sean McVay/Matt LaFleur offense has made NFL QB’s out of the very average Jimmy Garapolo, Chris Mullens, CJ Bethard. Along with Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff as well as others. It’ll be exciting to see how the talented, young Jordan Love develops in this offense. At the very least it gives him a fighting chance to be a good NFL QB.
Even when the almighty Aaron Rodgers decided to actually run MLF’s offense in year 2. It showed that Rodgers didn’t need a shiny new WR to play with. What he really needed was to run his HC ‘s offense. Something he refused to do more often than not in Rodgers first year in this offense.
The much maligned 2020 draft was a testament of MLF’s vision of what he wanted his offense to become. And not some vanity draft to pad his aging diva QB’s stats.
How much does 1265 pay for you to toss out hypothetical s regarding J. Love? Damage control from someone never seen on this site UNTIL Green Bay’s brain-trust NEEDED damage control help . . . Have you seen J. Love play professionally? Well?
Furthermore; the QB1’s that you mention? NONE OF THEM have won a SB ring as an actual QB1 behind center in a SB game . . . NONE OF THEM. Your point is? Gaslighting! that is what it is.
Go pedal your propaganda and your animus towards Rodgers somewhere else. You are a clueless hack for 1265 Lombardi. Shameful and repugnant, with little to no strength in your posts.
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!…
I’m not so sure you want to use that tone concerning someone who self professed his high education and wealth in here.
It’s not my business but ….i just don’t want to see anyone get hurt.
There is no telling the power he yields.
Please…proceed with caution!!
In related news…Bwhahahahahaha!!
Yeah PF4L! You might have a point! Thanks! I’ll take your warning under advisement. In the meantime, I will continue to maintain as much of a professorial tone as I am able to considering the source I am debating against . . .
Your braver than i…..
Hell..it took me a week and a half to convince it, that the Packers were down 8 points, not 5, against the Bucs in the 4th quarter. After that i said to myself, lesson learned :)
Details in truth isn’t it’s strong point.
Ladies, such hostility! I wear my “I OFFENDED” shirt as I reply. See what I did there? There’s no shame in losing to the Bucs in the NFCC game. Let me explain what a real man does. If Rodgers were a real man he’d tell his buddy Tom Brady: “Look old man, you got me this time but me and my boys are coming for you next year. I’m putting you on notice now we’re going to kick ass and take names come 2021.” And then I’d restructure my contract so we could sign Kyle Fuller and a stud WR and whatever else we could. But your girlfriend can’t man up and do that. He talks about how he doesn’t know where he’ll be next year and how they cut his friend Jake Kumerow and how he’s not appreciated. All manner of pussy ass horse shit. Then he wants to be traded to Denver who doesn’t stand a snow balls chance in getting to a SB let alone winning one. Which tells you what your girlfriend really thinks about winning a SB. No thanks, he’s more interested in padding his precious stats. And god knows you girls can’t get enough of his self serving stats.
One of you three stooges mentioned Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes didn’t go on Pat McAfee and proclaim himself the GOAT. Aaron Rodgers did. If your going to make bold statements, you better back it up. Rodgers did not. And I’m not giving him a pass. You girls are going to have to come to terms with the fact that Aaron Rodgers doesn’t give two shits about you or any other Packer fans. And talking shit about management isn’t going to make him love you or make him want to stay. As far as Jordan Love, he’s immensely talented, has the best WR in football, a top three RB duo in Jones and Dillion, a top 10 defense. Not to mention two of the best young, innovative, offensive coaches in the game right now in Matt LaFleur and Nathaniel Hackett. We can win without Aaron Rodgers and we will.
Now, that was hilarious. Ol’ Foghorn Leghorn, was my favorite cartoon character;;;;;;;;; “ah, the good ol’ days!. LOL
Top 10 defense is quite the stretch
Don’t worry Kato, this top ten defense label isn’t based off of any statistical evidence. It’s based off of Tom’s trustworthy eyesight that he uses while watching film with real men.
I just discovered an article titled….
Who Will Be the Packers Wide Receiver 2 In 2021?
I’m going with the obvious… Juwann Winfree.
Based on recent history….we’ll ask that same question this time next year, as we do annually.
I thought #33 Jones was WR2?
He was very close one year.
2018 – Graham at 636 yards and 2 TD’s. (all for only $13.25 million)
2019 – Lazard edged out Jones by 3 yards, 477 – 474 yards. Both has 3 TD receptions. I call it a tie.
2020 – MVS had a big year, 690 yards with 6 TD’s. PLUS…he increased his target catch rate from in the 40’s to low 50’s. So that was impressive.
2021- is just a beautiful mystery my friend.
Rodgers has had the second most rushing yards on the team for an entire season before. Something tells me having the second most receiving yards as a QB might be a little more difficult. Although, he wouldn’t have much competition…
Great article Rob. Nice to see you’re back to being a sports writer, because your medical advice & A-Rod takes are absolute shit.
Nice use of you’re and your.
I can’t stand Mike Shanahan BTW. Kyle too.
In an article i read this morning about Rodgers not opting out……
“But what does this mean moving forward? That’s the problem. Nobody knows because nobody is talking. It’s hard to believe this whole thing “started” April 29. As we roll through another national holiday, it’s starting to become ho-hum.
It started April 29th? What rock has this writer been hiding under?
By April 29th…there were already three separate plane trips taken to go talk to Rodgers.
Some may think it started the day they drafted Love. Others might think it started closer to March 13th 2018.
My money says it “started” closer to 2018
“I don’t know what the future holds for both of these parties, but it would greatly benefit both if there would be some honesty. I realize the Packers probably don’t want to even say Rodgers’ name for fear that they make a mistake — like they’ve already done — but Rodgers needs to know how much that team values him as a player and person.”
Lol…Golly gee Billy Joe Bob……
I think that Rodgers might know how much the team values him more than anyone on planet earth.
What are the chances….that it’s the actual reason why we are, where we are now?
Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, LeBron James are the greatest to ever play sports. They transcend the game. They win championships, don’t make excuses, they don’t point fingers, and they certainly don’t go on pod casts proclaiming they’re the greatest ever. They don’t have to. They let the rings of their fingers do the talking. Sadly Aaron Rodgers isn’t one of them. Rodgers career arch matches that of Drew Brees. A hall of fame QB that won a lot of regular season games, accumulated a boat load of stats, and fell into one SB. A nice career to be sure, but that’s it. This narrative that you girls have that we can only win with Rodgers is a false one. Win what exactly? The division? A playoff game? A SB however seems to be off the table due to your constant excuses and finger pointing that never can be directed at Rodgers. Over the last decade the players have changed, the coaching staff has changed, the front office personnel is all different. The only constant is Aaron Rodgers. So when is Aaron Rodgers held accountable? Apparently never. After a very disappointing 4th quarter of the NFCC game did Rodger own up to his poor play? No. He immediately changed the narrative. I don’t know where I’ll be next year, I don’t know where I’ll play. This was my last game as a Packer. Typical misdirection. He’s under contract. His rant irrelevant. But it worked. Everyone got upset that Rodgers doesn’t want to play for us anymore and the cries of we love you Aaron please stay began.
Rodgers will play this year. He hasn’t suited up for one practice but his excuse for yet another playoff loss is secure. Due to a “hostile working environment” he’s unable to win a championship. His minions will coddle him. And the cycle continues.
“Apparently Rodgers wants to have input on roster decisions, so do you think other prominent players should have input as well? How would that work?” – anonymous
Gee Billy Bob…i have no clue.
Should we ask the Tampa Bay Bucs and Tom Brady if that could work?
SMH :)….damn….sometimes it’s just too easy.
“Montana also revealed that during a conversation at the Super Bowl with Brady he thought that Tom wasn’t happy with New England/Belichick for not letting him have “input” – Jake Asman
I couldn’t care less what Montana thought of Brady. It’s irrelevant. But here’s something Montana didn’t do when he was playing. Cry like a little bitch when the 49ers acquired Steve Young. As far as Brady, he honored his contract and showed up for work. While tinker bell is far too sensitive to do so. Tom Brady counts 17 million against the cap this year while lover boy 37 million. Brady works for less so his team can sign players and win championships. While your girlfriend wants to be the highest paid play and to be able to point fingers when he can’t win a championship. Notice the subtle yet significant difference?
The Marquez Valdes-Scantling Situation.
Lets first examine the similarities and differences with MVS and Davante Adams 1st 3 seasons.
First, before i get into this….
It boggles my mind why some Packer fans aren’t calling for the head of MVS. Anyone with half a brain can remember all the articles written and the comments made by readers calling for the release of Davante Adams.(if you are wondering who expressed those thoughts, i can easily remind you). But apparently this time around…MVS gets a total pass.
I don’t recall even one person asking for the release of MVS, but many calling for the head of Davante back when he struggled.
Lets examine them both at the same stage in their careers, namely their first 3 seasons. They both have/had the same problem, catching the ball. But that is where the similarities end.
It’s clear that MVS is more of a deep threat than Adams. Two reasons for that i can see
2) MVS isn’t the precise short to intermediate route runner that Adams is.
IMO….Adams was kept for potential as a precise route runner. MVS has been kept for his a) big play ability(speed) and b) Gute is trying to salvage his 2018 draft past the 1st round pick.
Lets be honest, past drafting Alexander, that draft didn’t bear much fruit.
Hell, as a whole…the 2018 season, didn’t bear much fruit.
So..lets look at production…..
1st two seasons
MVS….4 TD’s….49.6% target catch rate
Adams…4TD’s…55.3 target catch rate
Not real impressive by either.
MVS….6 TD’s….52.3% target catch rate
Adams 12 TD’s…61.98 target catch rate
I think we have a clear winner.
The reason i called this the MVS “situation” is because MVS will be playing his 4th season, he’s playing for a 2nd contract.
Usually…a receiver with a 52.3% catch rate, is either sitting on the bench, or at home, but rarely….a starter in this league.
Adams clearly made his mark his 3rd season and earned his 2nd contract.
MVS…..is a different story.
IF…MVS has another season of a catch rate near 50%, Gute may not have many other options but to resign him because he hasn’t drafted anyone since just drafting Amari Rodgers.
Next season will be very interesting with so many players on the come up needing a new deal, Z wanting a new deal with more paper, coupled with a league worst salary cap hell.
Where MVS stands in importance on that list will be very interesting.
Some think that Rodgers salary cap hits (structured by the Packers) is what’s crippling the salary cap.
In part there is truth to it, but…..
Don’t think for a second that Gute spending 182 million in a couple weeks on free agents has nothing to do with that.
182 million!…..or otherwise known as the equivalent of the 2020 total NFL team salary cap.
5 of the largest 8 salary cap hits in 2020 came from those free agent signings in 2020.
Think about it.
Small minds disregard. No sense in hurting yourself.
Someday soon we’ll be talking about how many QB’s have salary cap hits of 40 million plus a year.
Including Patrick Holmes salary cap hits of 46 million (2023)…to a high of 59 million in 2027.
Those four free agents Gutekunst signed played a significant part in going to the NFCC game against the 49ers two years ago when we were coming off a 6-9-1 season the year before. I know you think it was all Aaron Rodgers and his 26 TD’s that year. It was not. MVS and Davante Adams are totally different players but you’d have to look beyond the stats to see that. But that’s all you can do is regurgitate meaningless stats. Adams will never have the speed of MVS. And MVS will never have Adams route running ability. Adams is sure handed, while MVS is not. Adams a number one WR. MVS is a two at best but probably no better than a three. And there’s no shame in that coming from a fifth round pick. At 29, Adams won’t be worth the contract he’ll fetch in FA next year. He won’t be resigning and your girlfriend will be livid. Especially after the stink he’s made over Jake Kumerow. The drama will continue.
You follow PF4L around disagreeing with whatever he says.
It’s like you have some kind of weird man crush on him.
Absolutely nobody want you as “their” girlfriend.
Lol…it’s like this Ed…..
As far as i care, there are two kinds of people in this world.
You are either born a willow, or born an oak.
You don’t tell people you are an oak, people tell you.
If someone has to tell you they are an oak, they are a willow.
Listen up Willow Tommy….
I believe that the free agents played a role in the team getting to the NFC game, same as i believe Pettine had a hand in it. The same i believe Rodgers, LaFleur and Jones had a hand in it.
I never said any different.
One could argue the 2018 team had more sacks (which they did)
BUT….in 2019 the scoring defense went down 5.4 PPG.
But reverted in 2020 going back up 3 PPG
The point being…for all that cash doled out. I’d hate to think we didn’t benefit from it at all.
When i say something Willow, it’s a good idea to pay attention. Take notes if you have to.
What i also said before Willow Tommy…..
Is that those free agents didn’t do shit once they got to the NFCCG(s).
If you want to refute that …be my guest.
Now….i’m sure you’re most likely busy weeping about something else….so get to it Willow.
“MVS and Davante Adams are totally different players” – Willow
Gee, you must be a genius…….thanks for educating us professor .
Can you teach us more?
“Adams will never have the speed of MVS” – Willow
OMG..we all thought with age, a player gets faster!
Can you teach us more wise one?
“And MVS will never have Adams route running ability.” – Willow
Gee…i thought he’d be a better route runner than Adams, maybe like, in his 8th or 9th year.
The things we all learn in here…don’t stop!! Teach us more!!
“Adams is sure handed, while MVS is not” – Willow
I can’t even believe what is happening!!
We are all being educated by Willow.
And it’s all free!!…No charge!!
How lucky are we?
I need to buy a new notebook…i have to start taking notes!!
Your a stat boy PF4L. Tell me what Adams 40 time was coming into the draft. I’m guessing 4.5 while MVS was around 4.3. Which would make MVS faster at the same age. Physically MVS is a much bigger WR. And pretty much a one trick pony. Running deep routes dropping almost as many as he catches. While he did make strides last year he’s never been one of your girlfriends favorite targets and I don’t see that changing any time soon. Which will limit his progress, if there’s any to be made. Especially now that Lazard will be health, Funchess likely to make the team, Amari Rodgers in the slot, and Rodgers forcing at least 10 balls to Adams a game. That’s not to say MVS won’t have a roll. Remember we’ll run the ball too so they’ll only be a finite number of throws by Rodgers assuming he runs MLF’s game plan. I see a limited amount of opportunities for MVS this season with similar numbers to last year, and that’s not a bad thing. You can’t catch it if it’s not thrown to you regardless if you think MVS is the next Davante Adams which I seriously doubt. MVS strikes me more of a James Jones type player. A solid third option behind the likes of Jordy and Jennings and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Now don’t get jealous ed. You say something equally stupid as PF4L and I’ll be happy to show you the error of your ways….
Another insipid comment from 1265 . . .
The MVS situation. The years from 2014 to 2017, Adams was not a featured receiver a/c Cobb, J. Jones, and Nelson being the starters. When Nelson went down in 2015 with injury, then Adams became more involved in the offense with mixed results. You’re right Adams was heavily scrutinized for his drops because of the consistency of the other starters. Let’s fast forward to 2018, Nelson and Cobb were gone; that left Adams, St. Brown and MVS. Also they picked up Lazard. Not exactly murderers row at the WR position. Just like the Packer brass, some fans are easier on MVS because of his occasional big play ability and that the others just can’t seem to progress and grab ahold of that 2nd WR spot. The brass did not draft a WR in 2018, 2019, or 2020; instead, trying to upgrade at that position with UDFAs’ and lower round draft picks. Although I can’t agree with what #12 is doing now, I understand his frustration—- he is used to depending on reliable receivers; Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb and now Adams. Look how long they toyed and hoped for big things from Allison, Janis, Abbredaris, and others. They’re doing the same strategy with WR’s now. The brass has this belief that WRs’ take 2, 3. or 4 years to mature into dependable players. The last decade has proven that theory has very little merit. The college game has changed, the players are more ready to contribute sooner, rather than later, and this organization refuses to adjust to that change. #12 is not without blame on this issue either. In the games that Adams was injured, the Packers are 6 and 0. That tells me #12 is forced to look at other options because ol reliable Adams is not in the game. I hope Amari Rodgers brings an upgrade to the offense. However, how long is the brass willing to piddle around with WRs’ that have been subpar for so long? This is where I blame management!
It can be parsed, anyway you want i guess.
But at the end of the day, they both had the same problem…catches
So it’s fair to compare them, i don’t care who else is on the field.
A ball is thrown to you…. your job is to catch it.
Does a receiver drop passes because better receivers are on the field?
I mean…how does that work?
Adams raised his catch percentage to an acceptable level his 3rd year.
Now MVS is trying to do the same his 4th year, is up to him. (4th year leap?)
No matter who is on the field.
Whether you have 3 other #1 receivers on your team, or you have 3 other nobody receivers, it doesn’t matter!..52% isn’t acceptable in your 3rd year (period)
Side note fact…and thought.
Randall Cobb wasn’t gone in 2018. He was kept because Nelson was older and “lost it”.
But here’s a fun fact….
In 2018 Cobb caught 38 passes for 383 yards and 2 TD’s that season.
In 2017…Jordy, in the 1st 5 games (with Rodgers) he caught 25 passes for 290 yards and 6 TD’s.
Now someone explain to me how Nelson couldn’t have beat Cobbs 2018 stats (with Rodgers) in 2018.
Like how he beat him every other year except for when injured.
It was believed that Cobb was kept because he was younger.
As i said ..at the time (in here).
What does it matter if he’s younger, Cobb won’t be with the Packers after the season.
Since 2016 Cobb’s season high in TD’s has been 4.
Nelson vs Cobb?….Good call Gute.
Davante Adams had a significant ankle injury in year two which greatly limited his progress. It was his third year where he actually began to break out. Aaron Rodgers however constantly sang his praises from day one. MVS has never got such attention. This MVS/Adams comparison is a foolish one. In order for MVS to have a “break out” season. MVS would have to develop Rodgers “trust” which I don’t see happening. I see a lot of throws to Amari Rodgers and you know Davante Adams will get his. That leaves Lazard, MVS, Funchess, and Tonyan fighting for what’s left. Which won’t be a lot if we’re a heavy run oriented team. Don’t get me wrong. I like MVS. I just think he’s close to his ceiling. But I’d love for him to prove me wrong. And he’s more likely to get a contract extension than Adams next offseason.
“It was his third year where he actually began to break out.” – Tommy
This is what i mean people!
The man never stops teaching!
Some of you might claim you already knew what Tommy is throwin down.
You’re not fooling anyone.
Tommy is like a faucet of untapped knowledge.
Teach us more Tommy!!
With your faucet of untapped stupidity it’s impossible to teach you anything. But let’s do this. Let’s revisit MVS during the season and see if he’s the next Davante Adams as you claim. Or if he maintains his current career trajectory as a solid 2 or 3 WR at best. Aaron Rodgers does not feel your enthusiasm for MVS. He’s the one you have to convince. Not me. Rodgers routinely targets Adams’ 10 to 12 times a game. While he takes his shots down the field to MVS no more that 4 or 5 times a game. I just don’t see it ever happening. I don’t see MVS ever being Rodgers focus the way Adams is. Unless Adams gets hurt and even then I don’t see it. Adams missed 6 games the last two years. We won all of them and not once was MVS the focal point of the passing game.
“Let’s revisit MVS during the season and see if he’s the next Davante Adams as you claim.” – Tommy
When did i claim MVS was the next Davante Adams?
MVS and Davante Adams are two totally different players. Yet you start this nonsensical stat comparison like it’s suppose to mean something. It doesn’t. It’s like all the stat bull shit you use to say Aaron Rodgers is the best ever! He isn’t. I’m sure they say the same thing about Drew Brees in New Orleans. Jake Kumerow was cut because Rodgers never threw him the ball despite what Rodgers thought of him. Likewise MVS can’t take the next step, assuming there’s one to be taken, if Rodgers doesn’t throw him the ball. And there’s no indication Rodgers ever will. Comparing their stats won’t change that.
I guarantee PF4L does not view MVS as being on the same level as Davante Adams. Where you’re getting this idea, I’m not sure. Yes, he brought up how their first two seasons stats were SIMILAR but that ended when he mentioned their third year.
MVS….6 TD’s….52.3% target catch rate
Adams 12 TD’s…61.98 target catch rate
I think we have a clear winner.”
“Adams clearly made his mark his 3rd season and earned his 2nd contract.
MVS…..is a different story.
IF…MVS has another season of a catch rate near 50%, Gute may not have many other options but to resign him because he hasn’t drafted anyone since just drafting Amari Rodgers.”
I see no nonsensical comparisons. Looks pretty damn logical to me.
What a bonehead right?
Like i said anything ….about MVS becoming anywhere close to Adams…ever.
The whole point was Adams was never as bad as MVS, but it was only Adams who got called out by everyone.
No wonder it takes him forever to understand things, which is making more sense now.
I was talking about two players, just two…then out of the blue…he spits out all these different players from his pickle gobbler.
Like James Jones, Drew Bree’s, Jennings, Jordy, Kumerow, Lazard, Funchess, Tonyan, Amari Rodgers. Two of those receivers haven’t even played a game for the Packers.
He also brought up Rodgers name,11 times(shocking right)….because, obsessed crazy child.
JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS KIDS
Then why are you girls comparing Davante Adams stats to MVS? Make your point based on what you see. Not on another players stats. Stats are for the fans and sports media to regurgitate and argue over. You never hear coaches, scouts, talent evaluators, and front office personnel quote stats. Never. Their evaluations are always based on tape. What do you see on any given play? Did the LT miss a block? Did the pulling guard make it to the next level and block the ILB? Did the RB cut inside or outside? Did the WR run the right route? Did my QB run the play I called? How many times have we seen reports in post game press conferences telling the head coach, “your QB threw for 400 yards” and the head coach looks genuinely surprised? The HC is only interested in if his game plan is executed and if everyone did their jobs. How many yards is irrelevant to a coach. Just as it’s irrelevant what Adams stats are when referencing MVS. Make your argument based on what you see. Adams play has nothing to do with MVS.
Scouts, talent evaluators, and coaches never quote stats. Never. That’s strictly for fans, sports journalists, and contract negotiations. They make their evaluations based on tape. What they see. Whatever your point about MVS or Davante Adams their respective stats are meaningless in regards to one another. Tell me what what you see to support your case. Trust your eyes. You don’t need stats to say MVS is not Davante Adams. The tape tells you that.
LOL, the amount of nonsense you spew out is comical.
Did a statistician steal your girlfriend in high school?
Cheese, I don’t need stats to tell me Davante Adams is better than MVS. And neither does anyone else. We can all see it. But thanks Captain Obvious. But by all means, you, MMSUCKS, and PF4L jerk off to your “empirical data”. Let the real men run the team.
“I don’t need stats to tell me Davante Adams is better than MVS. And neither does anyone else.”
Wow, you sure schooled me. And you’re calling me captain obvious? It’s not my fault you can’t understand a simple comparison between two players based off of their 3rd year in the league. But by all means, continue with your tirade about how stats are totally irrelevant and anyone who runs a successful organization completely disregards them.
In other news…
Friday evening through Monday morning Chicago reported 82 shootings with 14 being deadly.
When asked, Mayor Lori Lightfoot said those numbers are clearly unacceptable..
“The reason for those numbers are simple, people need better training. Like going to an actual shooting range and getting proper instruction to improve their accuracy.” ..Lightfoot noted.
Sorry :)….When others take this problem seriously, i will also.
I know!….Lets defund the Police!!
My source that I checked (Daily Caller) stated 233 killed and 618 injured in over 500 shootings over the weekend. A more expansive article broke this down by the major cities that are experiencing this “uptick” in gun violence. 80-90% of the victims in most of these cities (including Milwaukee), are black. The perpetrators in most of these situations are not rouge white racist cops exceeding authority and training. They are not white supremacist Jim Bob dudes with camo fatigues and AR15s who are peaved about the last election – despite all the gaslighting about such “threats”.
No, most of these unfortunate victims are victims of “rival groups” who perpetrate this violence without a care in the world to following laws. All of the cities enduring these spikes are led by those who are patting themselves on the back for reducing budgets of those who could protect those neighborhoods, re-imagining the task of policing, doing away with cash bail and putting criminals instantly back on the street, often to exact quick revenge. How’s that all working out?
Maybe it’s time for another woke article to remind us that these lives matter, not just when they play football for us. Maybe it’s time for the bigoted bomb thrower of the NBA to enlighten us with his wisdom. Maybe it’s time for the media to just plain report on the truth and not hide behind euphemisms and not keep trying to hide behind the boogie man of this “new domestic terror threat” because smart people already know what’s going on.
233 people is a lot of existing and potential football fans (there, kept it relevant).
The thing is, is that i don’t even care.
What i care about is when innocent people and children die because of their actions.
I say i don’t care, because they obviously don’t care, so if they want to keep shooting themselves, they are doing society a favor.
Just no innocent people
Not too mention how many shooting spikes are happening in Cities where the criminals enjoyed autonomy, and where the Police forces were told to stand down and retreat by it’s “Leaders”.
Excellent post as usual Mitch.
Aaron Rodgers sinks winning putt to beat Brady and Mickelson 3 and 2. Raising 2.6 million dollars for My Brothers Keeper (relevant).
Congrats to the Milwaukee Bucks!!!
The Bucks have reached the NBA Finals.
When asked about it, Brian Gutenkunst commented…”it must be nice”
“For whatever reason, ever since the days of Brett Favre, Green Bay seems content to only modestly invest in the present to ensure its’ future is secure. You know what that gets you, only one Super Bowl with Favre, and so far, one with Rodgers. That neither have won multiple championships to this point, is inexcusable and it’s not their fault. They’re not blameless, but more blame falls on the perpetually conservative front office. While Packers players give it their all on the field, it’s obvious that they’ve lacked enough talent to consistently be in the Lombardi Trophy conversation. Rodgers has to will them into a deep playoff run every time. That is not enough, and it wasn’t during Favre’s’ tenure either. Getting Favre and Rodgers back to back at the most important position in sports—— is winning the lottery. But, guess what’s painfully obvious? The Packers have been too busy patting themselves on the back for acquiring those two Q-backs and haven’t reached their full potential because of it. Maybe instead of just writing Rodgers off as a hopeless case, who thinks too much like a 21st century human, the Packer brass could get off their high horses. What the Packers have done for decades speaks louder than anything to justify Rodgers’ wish to be traded. Because they lack the self awareness to see the errors of their rigid ways.” Rodgers has mostly been silent, while Murphy spits out ” we’re not idiots, and he’s a complicated fellow” to take the focus off management and belittle Rodgers. IMO, that is, at least; very questionable leadership, and not seeing the error of their ways. I got these quotes off of another site and thought I would post them to keep comments going until the next article comes around. For those who have already read this;;;;; I apologize.
Seeing as Rodgers is continuing his attention seeking behavior of literally saying nothing about his intentions, I turned my interest elsewhere.
I am a sports fan. As a former athlete, I love the competition, the work and dedication it takes to try and be better than your opponent. The Olympics are the epitome of that hard work and training, starting at a very young age. Those athletes have to scrutinize what they eat, and what supplements they take so that they don’t fail a banned substance screen.
I am going to preface by saying, I consider myself somewhat of a progressive. I am for human rights and trans rights. But, allowing a trans woman to compete in the Olympics is flat out insane. The committee’s arbitrary standard of having a testosterone number below a certain threshold for a year or whatever it is is such a lazy uninformed standard. It completely ignores all science, which woke people constantly scream about. Her body went through male puberty. With than comes increased bone size, muscle mass. Before she transitioned, she competed in weight lifting competitions as a man. Those muscles don’t just suddenly disappear on estrogen, and studies have proven that. I can’t watch/support an athletic competition that places its competitors at a significant disadvantage because their wokeness
And again, I want to reiterate, I have zero ill will toward trans people. But human rights doesn’t extend to the right to compete in the elite sporting competitions. Allowing someone that developed as a man biologically to compete in the women’s field is insulting to the women competitors that worked to get to that stage, and it’s insluting to fans watching who know better. There are men’s and women’s leagues for good reason.
I couldn’t agree more Kato! Having that lazy uninformed standard is like telling the authorities who have a search warrant for your premises, “sure you can search the place, but don’t go into the attic or basement.”. Absolute insanity.
Mick- the worst part nowadays is we can’t even have this discussion or debate without being accused of transphobia, immediately attempting to shut the conversation down. There is very credible scientific evidence that suggests that trans women have very large advantages. Credible studies. I can’t wrap my head around this.
I don’t know the name but some dude decided to identify as female and started fighting MMA. Not only is this person winning their matches, but they are absolutely manhandling the other women. Like beating the F*** out of them. Sounds totally fair, hey?