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Love’s Labour’s Lost?

Shakespeare couldn’t have had the Packer’s plight in mind, back around 1595, when he gave this title to one of his lesser-known comedies. Regardless, if Green Bay doesn’t heed his words, they will have squandered last season’s first round draft choice – they even traded up in order to select Utah State quarterback Jordan Love.

To the best of my knowledge no one – other than perhaps himself – predicted that Aaron Rodgers would turn his game around to the point of running off with the MVP award. And that changes everything.

We fans simply have no clue as to Love’s ability and potential – he’s been invisible for the past year. Assuming that the league will have a three-game preseason schedule, Love will likely get almost all of those offensive snaps, which might suffice to predict what the future holds for him.

I’m going to trust Brian Gutekunst, and assume (as I will for the rest of this piece) that Love develops rapidly and performs well. If so, it’s inevitable to me that the Packers will trade him, which will most likely happen next season.

Aug 30, 2019; Winston-Salem, NC, USA; Utah State Aggies quarterback Jordan Love (10) looks to pass the ball during the third quarter against the Wake Forest Demon Deacons at BB&T Field. Jeremy Brevard-USA TODAY Sports

From Love’s Perspective

Jordan had no say in the decision to make him the backup to the NFL’s best quarterback. He’s an innocent victim.

Can anyone imagine that a player as physically gifted as Love would be content to sit on the bench for four or even five years? Jordan’s loss of pay alone would add up to tens of millions of dollars. If Jordan were to still be Rodgers’ backup entering his fourth year (2023), he’d be demanding a trade, and he’d remain bitter forever about how Green Bay compromised his career and earning capacity.

QB Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love

Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers (12) and quarterback Jordan Love (10) are shown Monday, August 17, 2020, during training camp in Green Bay, Wis.

From Rodgers’ Perspective

When Aaron was 34 years old, he told NBCs Peter King his goal was to play at least to age 40. After his outstanding play last season, he might want to add a couple more years onto that goal. It’s obvious that Aaron was shocked, miffed, and hurt when Gutekunst drafted Love. It’s also apparent that Rodgers currently feels he lacks job security in Green Bay.

Aaron will turn 40 during the 2023 season. His 4-year contract also runs through 2023, and he seems to be resisting any efforts by the team to tinker with it. The word is that Aaron wants an extension that would include guarantees that he’d be Green Bay’s starting quarterback until he’s ready to retire. After how he performed last season, and for his loyalty and excellence over 16 years with the team, he’s earned such assurances.

From the Packers’ Perspective

Gutekunst invested heavily in the belief that Jordan Love would become Green Bay’s third consecutive franchise quarterback. Rodgers’ fabulous 2020 season quashes any such hopes – even if Aaron’s games declines somewhat as he approaches age 40, he’ll still be one of the league’s premiere passers.

Barring the inconceivable – a total collapse by Rodgers – the only way Love will ever start a game for the Packers is if Aaron is unable to play due to an injury.

Gutekunst find himself on the horns of a dilemma – but there appears to be a solution. If Jordan begins to display the talent that Gutey expects – in preseason games and occasionally during regular season games whose outcome has been decided – Jordan will become a very attractive trading prospect.

Any number of teams desperate to land a top-notch QB should not hesitate to offer up their first-round draft selection (and maybe more) for Jordan. Gutekunst can’t be the only GM who feels Jordan’s potential is sky-high. The optimum time to talk trades would be during or following the 2022 season – though the Packers could let it be known they are even open to offers during or immediately following the upcoming season.

The Packers might even work a trade with a team that is in line to have one of the first ten overall draft picks, which would essentially be upgrading a 26th overall pick to a top-ten draft pick. Several teams in 2021 might be quite willing to trade their top pick in 2023, or in 2022 to trade away their top 2024 pick. Those would be ideal times to seek out Rodgers’ eventual successor.

Gutey simply jumped the gun in trying to pick Rodgers’ replacement. Trading away Love would also serve to quell any resentment Rodgers might be harboring toward the team’s front office.

From Other Teams’ Perspectives

If Jordan is traded, it need not be a matter of Green Bay cutting its losses. Gutey can still make lemonade out of what has turned out to be an ill-timed draft pick.

There are a handful of dysfunctional teams who get to choose near the top of the draft list almost every year, like the Jets, Browns, and Jags. Most teams, however, don’t get to pick in the first round until the first ten or so players have already been picked off. A few teams become desperate enough that they’ll trade multiple first round picks in order to move up and acquire a top ten draft pick. The better NFL teams have to pick from the middle or near the bottom of that first-round list year after year, which means their chances of landing a franchise QB are quite slim.


Aaron Rodgers now appears ready to remain at or near the top of his profession for several years to come. Therefore, assuming that Jordan Love shows the potential to become a top-flight NFL quarterback in the next year or two, the Packers should seek to trade him. Green Bay would be in the driver’s seat, and need not be in any hurry to pull off such a deal.

If they don’t trade him, it’s inevitable that Green Bay will spend years of training and coaching Jordan to become a star for some other team. As the bard would put it: absent a trade, all of Jordan Love’s labors would likely be lost to the Packers.

Rob Born

Smart drafters don’t select the best available players, they fill a team’s positions of greatest need.



  1. thequick12 March 27, 2021

    You do realize it’s the Packers front office who is resisting tinkering with Aaron Rodgers contract?

    They could vdo a simple restructure, roster bonus/base to signing bonus, without any input from Rodgers. The only way they would need his permission for this is if they wanted to add 2 void years to the 3 remaining in his contract and thus spread that signing bonus out into the future.

    The team is clearly trying to maintain the flexibility to move on from Rodgers after most likely the 2022 or even 2023 season. Obviously only if Jordan Love looks so good in practice/pre season if they have it, they have to give him the chance to be #3

  2. PF4L March 27, 2021

    I love you Rob, but wtf? :)

    I agree with one statement.
    “Gutey simply jumped the gun in trying to pick Rodgers’ replacement.”

    1. PF4L March 27, 2021

      Is Love the new Jeff Janis?

    2. Ferris March 27, 2021

      Now wait a minute…Love “fell” to them… remember?
      Kenny King should have been TJ Watt and Jordan Love should have been Patrick Queen. I need to be an NFL GM it just does not seem that hard.

  3. Howard March 27, 2021

    To me Gutekunst made a bad move to draft Love. Gutekunst made a really, really, really stupid move to trade up to get love.
    No matter what I write next, the final decision to draft Love is on Gutekunst. I do remain skeptical that LaFleur had and has no involvement in the draft process, including but not limited to Love. It is not feasible to think Love was not drafted/targeted without in depth pre-draft review, film study and discussion between Gutekunst and LaFleur.
    It surprises me that very few have no faith that LaFleur can develop Love into a quality QB. Will love ever be at Rodgers level? Doubtful, you don’t find first ballot hall of fame QBs every draft.
    LaFleur in my opinion felt he could develop Love and told Gutekunst so, or else Love wouldn’t have been drafted. LaFleur is and was a QB coach/offensive coordinator/head coach just like Holmgren and McCarthy. It is not unreasonable to believe LaFleur wants to develop a young/early pick QB just like Holmgren and McCarthy had the opportunity.
    I don’t know how Love is going to develop, but I do have faith that if Love can be developed LaFleur is the right guy. If Love can be developed the Packers may still make the decision to stay with Rodgers and trade Love. If Love can’t be developed into a quality starter I’m positive LaFleur and Gutekunst will not waste a lot of time on Love before cutting him or trading him for a day three pick. The lost picks and time are a whole different discussion. As a longtime QB coach LaFleur will not want to put a bad QB he trained on the field.
    There was a reason Kizer was cut after LaFleur’s first camp. Kizer was not salvageable and LaFleur I’m certain told Gutekunst so.

    1. PF4L March 27, 2021

      This was posted a year BEFORE the 2020 draft, tongue in cheek to be sure, but ironic in it’s accuracy.
      PF4L April 16, 2019
      Ok…lets pretend i’m smart enough to be an NFL GM….

      I’m going to extend our franchise QB 4 years, throw him a 57 million signing bonus, guarantee him over 98 million, have him signed through 2023.

      Then, some months later….i’m gonna make ya’ll notice me and find my new franchise QB in the first round.
      Howard is most likely (100%) correct about everybody being on board with the Love pick.
      NO WAY…would Gute make that move on his own in the draft room.
      Daddy would have had his ass without his ok.
      I couldn’t find it, but i posted a few times after the draft how the pick of Love had to be discussed and strategized and agreed upon at the round table between Gute, Murphy, LaFluer before the draft.
      That and other factors led me to believe that Love was the target and if he was available, he was their guy.

      1. P4FL's Stupid Brain March 31, 2021

        “I couldn’t find it, but i posted a few times after the draft how the pick of Love had to be discussed and strategized and agreed upon at the round table between Gute, Murphy, LaFluer before the draft.”

        Holy shit, that’s insightful as fuck! Can you also explain to us why water is wet?

        1. PF4L April 1, 2021

          Awe :)…how cute

          Welcome Coward….oops!! My bad
          I meant….welcome to the site “new” person.

  4. PF4L March 27, 2021

    I guess i’ll start from the top…..and see how far down i can make it.
    Forget Shakespeare, they may have squandered the pick, the same day they selected Love (we don’t know yet)
    Please link your prediction of Rodgers having a MVP season. (thanks)
    You stated “We fans simply have no clue as to Love’s ability and potential” and i completely agree with that but…..then you go on and assume Love will be a top flight QB…..Really?
    “Jordan had no say in the decision to make him the backup to the NFL’s best quarterback. He’s an innocent victim.”

    Listen…Jordon Love should be be damn grateful he was chosen in the first round and that he’s guaranteed over 12 million and learning from Rodgers. He’s a victim?
    Based on what….his past NFL success?
    Nobody thinks Love will be sitting on the bench for 4 or 5 years. If Love is sitting on the bench…anywhere for 4 or 5 years, it will be because of Jordan Love, nobody else.
    It’s my contention Rodgers will be gone next season. If Love isn’t starting, it’s because he isn’t ready, like a lot of scouts had predicted.
    The reason i think Rodgers will be gone is simple.
    The Packers are already over the cap for 2022, that’s with having only 30 players under contract.
    Plus they still have to sign Adams and Alexander, over 20 players, and have money for the draft.
    The Packers save 22 million by dealing Rodgers and getting draft picks for him.
    The writings on the wall.
    “Jordan’s loss of pay alone would add up to tens of millions of dollars.”
    I love you man! :)…Never lose that sense of humor!
    Again….Is this “assuming he’ll be a top flight QB even though we have no clue, as you stated?
    I don’t know my man…it might be nice to see Jordan Love maybe…..complete a pass before we determine his future worth?
    That it is possible, that Rodgers could play so well, that Gute could change his (weak) mind, change course, rework Rodgers deal and keep him around.
    Unlikely, but i’ll concede it’s possible.
    Now…if that did in fact happen…Gute should be terminated immediately for reasons that should be evident to most.
    Maybe…and i’m just spit balling here.
    Maybe Matt LeFluer just hates Jordan Love and wants to ruin his career.

    1. thequick12 March 29, 2021

      There’s no way they move in from Rodgers after the 2021 season…now after 2022 when they can save like 32 m on the cap by trading Rodgers it might happen.

      Obviously this all depends on Love being ready. They aren’t just gonna move on from a fhof qb for no good reason. Love is gonna have to look special in practice running the scout team against the number 1 defense just like Rodgers did once upon a time to force the Packers to move on from their current fhof qb…

      1. PF4L March 29, 2021

        And how will they handle the salary cap?
        I’m listening and ready to learn.

        1. Tom M April 12, 2021

          There are two ways in which Rodgers returns for 2022. Both unlikely and have nothing to do with the salary cap. First, the Packers win the super bowl. If that were to occur, then the organization would be compelled to bring him back regardless of cap ramifications. Secondly, Jordan Love can’t play. He’d have to look like DeShone Kizer. Not out of the question, but again highly unlikely.

          Since winning the SB in 2010, Rodgers has had ten shots at a repeat with 4 NFCC games. He’s lost everyone and while they haven’t all been his fault. He has to take as much responsibility for the loss to the Bucs as anyone. He entered the 4 quarter only down by 5. A 4th quarter TD wins that game and he didn’t get it done. Aaron Rodgers is Drew Brees. He’s a stat whore. He’s not Tom Brady the real GOAT. Seven rings says it all. There’s no reason to think this year will be different than the previous 10. Still he’ll get one more swing at it.

  5. PF4L March 27, 2021

    Rob Born
    Smart drafters don’t select the best available players, they fill a team’s positions of greatest need.
    Nuff said.

    1. Cheese March 27, 2021

      A team is only as strong as its weakest link…
      Good thing the Packers drafted three benchwarmers with their top four picks last year, after being one game from the Super Bowl. That’s Gute and his “win now” mode for ya, lol. Meanwhile, they just resigned Kenny King and still don’t have a #2 WR. Oh I’m sorry, I forgot we have megastar Devin Funchess making his Wisconsin debut this year.
      Even if they trade Love, how long is it going to take to get a return on investment for him, if any? It’s just another long, dragged out process that doesn’t add up to anything.

    2. P4FL's Stupid Brain March 31, 2021

      Wow, that’s dumbest thing anyone has ever posted on this site (and you’ve posted some stupid shit).

      1. PF4L April 1, 2021

        Wait….you’ve been on this site before?

        Hmmm…i’m not recognizing the name, and here you had me fooled you were a new account.
        I’m so gullible :)
        BTW…dumbfuck…that isn’t my quote, it’s Robs.

  6. Andy Peth March 27, 2021

    Love could well turn out to be a steal. Massive talent dropped on Draft Day due to forcing bad throws on a depleted offense his last year.

    I don’t think they’ll even consider trading him. Rodgers will bring a sweet haul next year.

    1. PF4L March 27, 2021

      Massive talent.
      Oren Burks could well turn into a ALL PRO.
      J’Mon Moore could unretire, come back in the NFL, and one day be inducted into the HOF.
      The vikings could win back to back Super Bowls within the next 3 years.
      Hypotheticals are fun aren’t they?

      1. Andy Peth March 28, 2021

        Your hypothetical are extreme and laughable. Mine is not.

        1. PF4L March 28, 2021

          If you say so.

          1. Andy Peth March 28, 2021

            Yep. I say so.

          2. PF4L March 29, 2021

            Just for shits and giggles….

            Love was traded up for in the 1st round.

            What would entail, Love being a steal?

            What scenario would happen, to define Love being a steal in the first round?
            Please…don’t keep us in suspense.

          3. PF4L March 29, 2021

            I’ll contend proclaiming that Love may be a steal in the draft. is indeed “laughable”, mainly because i don’t know how a first round pick in the NFL draft could be labeled a steal.
            But i’m open to listen, learn, and retract what i said if i hear a good argument for.

          4. PF4L March 31, 2021

            I’ll stay patient until you can respond.

  7. Robster March 27, 2021

    First off, I assumed, for the sale of argument, that Love will become a quality NFL quarterback. I really have no idea because I’ve had no opportunity to observe him. If that doesn’t happen, then there’s no need for discussion: he’ll end up the same as Deshone Kizer, who is presently the property of the Titans, but hasn’t taken a snap in the NFL in the past two years. . . .In the past few days, a couple of national analysts/pundits/sensationalists have wildly speculated that Rodgers will depart the Packers after the upcoming season. Seriously, do they think the team –any team – would want to dump the player just voted the NFL’s most valuable in exchange for an untested pro who most analysts didn’t even expect to be drafted in round one? Why would anyone do that? Yes, moving on from Rodgers would help the salary cap situation in the next couple of years, but the Pack has a half dozen players with big contracts who they could/would let go ahead of Rodgers. The Dolphins just indicated the lengths NFL teams will go to in order to obtain a franchise QB. . .I agree that it’s highly unlikely that the GM would draft Love without input from, and likely concurrence with, the HC and OC – I speculate that none of the three had a clue that Rodgers would so stunningly re-invent himself. . . I don’t doubt that by the start of the 2023 season Rodgers or Love will be on Green Bay’s roster, but certainly not both – and my money is solidly on Aaron.

    1. Mick March 28, 2021

      I think there is a reason Rodgers’ contract hasn’t been extended or restructured here. As we know, there is a roadblock that has to be negotiated between Rodgers wanting security, and Gute wanting the flexibility to move on with Love. I can see both sides reasoning here. Add in the wild card of Rodgers possibly not repeating his stellar 2020 season performance, or the potential of him getting injured, Gute doesn’t know what he has in Love. Love hasn’t played in almost 2 years; Gute is rolling the dice and waiting for this preseason to see Love perform, before he commits to a longer term deal with Rodgers. As you guys stated above, if the GM didn’t get input from the OC and LaFleur——————– the GM has no business making decisions like he did with Love.

      1. PF4L March 28, 2021

        Mick….As i said the President, GM, and Head coach had to have gotten together and discussed and (agreed) to take this team in another direction. including discussing all the ramifications of doing so. That…i have no doubt. I also doubt the OC had a voice in those conversations.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if that meeting was held in 2019 after Gute flew back from watching Love play against LSU.

        1. Mick March 28, 2021

          My thought on the OC being involved a little bit was LaFleur has stated he has total trust in Hackett. If that was true, I’d think that La Fleur would bounce some ideas off of the OC to see if he thought that Love was capable running the offense mentally & schematically. I do agree that the Pres., GM and coach made the final choice. I bet we both would have loved to been a fly on the wall during that meeting!

          1. PF4L March 28, 2021

            If…Murphy had the final word, as proclaimed.
            If…they had weekly meetings like they proposed
            I’d imagine there were many conversations that over time, started getting very, very serious of…
            A) Do they have the right guy if they get Love
            B) The team and fan dynamics of such a bold move
            C) A full commitment from all three that they were carrying that plan through.
            What i think they lacked in those meetings, were conversations concerning the “What If”, scenario’s of the plan.

            When the pick was chosen, almost everybody across the NFL was at the least, scratching their heads, or going full tilt questioning the move.
            As i stated during and at the end of last season, Rodgers really threw a wrench into their “Plan”.
            If Rodgers has anywhere close to the season he had last year…..
            It will be interesting to see if they still have the full commitment of the plan, or if they double spek, and treat the subject like a hot potato.
            Either scenario imo….whether they continue the plan, or…..they keep Rodgers and have to deal with a out of control salary cap and all that implies in cutting players and salary.
            Either way….puts them in crisis mode.
            I have no sympathy…make your bed………

    2. PF4L March 28, 2021

      They can’t afford Rodgers in 2022.
      Yes they could keep Rodgers next year if they let some high priced players walk.
      But Rob…..then, what’s the point?
      Just between you and me Rob, should they have cut their losses with Preston and let him go so Gary could start, are we on the same page there?
      I understand that Gary could still start now and they could put Preston on the bench, but after restructuring Preston, they have now paid him over 33 million to date. To promote him to bench? In whose world does that make any sense?
      I described in a post above the possibility of Gute keeping Rodgers next season, if he again plays ALL World.
      Here’s an amendment to that, another possibility.
      If Love doesn’t look good at all, in camp, pre-season, that could also force Gute to keep Rodgers.
      To spare embarrassment to Love, and to himself.
      Can we talk bottom line?
      As Howard just spoke of, and i have spoken about since the day Love was drafted. It was mistake, plain and simple.
      This whole trading up for Love and picking Rodgers replacement instead of focusing on the team in the here and now has been nothing but a cluster fuck (so far). Meaning…Not to mention…in terms of Packer fans, how the rest of the league looks at us, and how NFL fans look at us.
      It’s embarrassing.
      Most them are doing what i’ve been doing since day 1, scratching my head and thinking wtf?
      After all this drama…and it isn’t over it.
      If Love doesn’t work out for Gute in some way, shape or form.
      His reputation around the league will be dog meat.
      Fair or not, you can bet your ass, he will be talked about as the guy who squandered Rodgers last years in Green Bay.
      When the dust settles, after the tears have fallen, i might officially be describing these years as…
      The Clusterfuck Years.

    3. Andy Peth March 28, 2021

      It comes to this: Will the team bow to fan sentiment and move Love, or commit to cap sanity and move Rodgers?

      1. PF4L March 28, 2021

        I think as men….they should show some backbone, and carry out their plan.

        Lets see how that unfolds.

        Of course i wouldn’t say that if i thought the Packers FO were interested in winning a SB with Rodgers.

        1. Mick March 29, 2021

          No doubt, the drama isn’t anywhere near over. The only way Gute is gonna look good after all this, is if Love develops into an upper tier Q-back. Any other scenario, and it’s egg on his face.

          1. Dean March 29, 2021

            One other way, and the best way, is to win a couple of super bowl in the next 2/3 years..

  8. Dean March 28, 2021

    It is hard to imagine Rodgers having a bad year in 2021 if he stays healthy. This offense is QB friendly with play action and it will be the 3rd year that the core players will playing in LaFleur’s system. Probably only thing to slow the O down is if they can not find another OT until Bak gets back. Have to give GB front office credit for doing an excellent job with the OL the past several years.
    Love should have plenty of playing time this preseason. It will be obvious then if he is tradable or not.

    1. PF4L March 28, 2021

      Pre-season is not the end all be all of. I remember a fella who had a great pre-season some years back, so good some people wanted to bench Rodgers.
      He won pre-season MVP with a passer rating of 129. Trouble is, he’s hasn’t played since, nor has most of the people he played against.
      But to your point, if another team values him for it, more power to the Packers.
      But then again, if we trade him, what was the damn point of drafting him…lose/lose

      1. Dean March 28, 2021

        I think trading Love would be a good sign of cutting your loses instead of keeping Love with Rodgers playing at a high level.

        1. PF4L March 28, 2021

          Sure…you can cut your losses, but how much damage was done fleeting away 2 draft picks and the opportunity of those players having a year or two playing time ​under their belt and helping the team?
          I think if we ended up trading Love after all this fiasco, terminating Gute would be “cutting our losses”.

          1. PF4L March 28, 2021

            Yea…i said it

          2. Dean March 28, 2021

            By “cutting our loses”, I mean trading Love because Rodgers is playing at a MVP level and probably can play well in this offense with LaFleur till the end of His contract. It seems obvious that Gute did not expect Rodgers to play to an MVP level again.
            Most teams would love to have this problem.

          3. PF4L March 28, 2021

            That’s a hell of a nice spin.
            A self induced problem into a perceived positive?
            I read your comments and i don’t see anywhere where trading up for Love creates a negative or impedes the team progress under any scenario in your mind.

          4. Dean March 29, 2021

            The “good problem” to have is that your starting QB played better than everyone expected. Played to an MVP level. What team would not want their QB to play better than expected?
            Now, Gute can not just move on from Rodgers without making people very upset. Maybe best to just trade Love (admit mistake) and move on. But what do I know….
            When did I ever say trading up for Love was a positive? I’d prefer for Gute to sit tight or trade back in the first round (like he did to get Alexander, trade back then move up). I was one of the experts that wanted a WR instead of a QB…

          5. PF4L March 30, 2021

            I’d prefer Gute to turn back time and undo what he thought was his job, but instead produced a clusterfuck.
            So much for having your eye on the ball and the focus being on the goal of winning a SB.
            Not Gute…he’s gonna outsmart everyone.

            One of the experts?

            You mean, you were one of the millions who were expecting to draft a wr but instead got a QB.
            A few years from now if people came back and read my post of the last 11 months….
            ….they’d say……He nailed it, again.

          6. rebelgb April 2, 2021

            PF4L I think at this point id rather hear feedback from ‘Killer’ than you. Your negativity is getting sickening. We all get it ok? Love was a mistake according to you. Geezuz pretty sure we just made it to 2 straight NFC title games and our offense was one of the best in the league. So wheres the problem again? Some magical draft pick that we could have taken instead of Love who would have put us over the edge? Who is that exactly, ill wait..,.,.,.

          7. PF4L April 2, 2021

            Awe, that’s a shame….Then don’t read it zippy.

            “Hey..we lost two NFCCG in a row…YAY!” – rebelgb

          8. PF4L April 2, 2021

            Well…it’s your lucky day sunshine…enjoy
            KILLER April 2, 2021
            The answer is “No.”
            For so many reasons. Last year Rodgers, Alexander, Linsley, and Adams all had career years. Linsley is gone, and it is highly unlikely all three of the others have career years. There is a reasons why they are called “career years”. They stand out from the rest of the career.
            Rob, you site various players as set to do the same, such as Jenkins. The same is not “stepping up higher”. That content should not even have been included. Even worse, you name Bahktiari who may miss half the season and most players do not come back the next year from ACL at as high of a level. So, you name a player that is active good reason to think “worse” as a good reason it will be “higher”. I’m not sure if you just mentally missed the boat on that one or are trying to be deceptive.
            Citing injury issues is an old Packers excuse trope and particularly egregious when the Packers had so few injuries last year. The greatest likelihood is that the Packers will have more injuries.
            New D coordinator with an incredibly bad reputation is another reason for “worse”.
            Going from the NFL’s easiest schedule to one of the Top 5 most difficult is another reason for “worse.”
            The disheartening championship game, which has to have reduced player faith in foolhardy Lefleur, has to sap at the spirits of the players as well.

          9. Tom M April 12, 2021

            And drafted who exactly instead of Jordan Love? Patrick Queen? I said at the time he reminded me Nick Barnett. That may have been an insult to Nick Barnett. I think we can agree he’s no Ray Lewis. Ok, Tee Higgins then. A nice player to be sure but Rodgers threw 48 TD’s with what he had. A receiver would have been a luxury not a necessity.

            What I find interesting is the 49ers spent a king’s ransom for the 3rd pick in this years draft presumably to draft a QB. Yet they could have drafted Jordan Love last year instead of Brandon Aiyuk and kept their first round picks. Is Mac Jones a superior prospect to Jordan Love? I don’t see it. Is Love on par with Fields and Lance who’ll both be selected in the top 10? Possibly. That makes Jordan Love a value pick at 26 along with an incidental 4th rounder.

            I think Brian Gutekunst looked his board over at the end of the first round last year and saw all the blue chip prospects gone. So he decided to move up three spots to select a potential franchise QB. I liked the move. It’s bold, it’s aggressive, and the risk was well worth the potential reward. And no, if he can play, we’re not trading Love. Why would you trade a potential franchise QB with a 12 year career in front of him for a soon to be 38 yr old with perhaps 2-3yrs left? The problem with these discussions is everyone fails to take the emotion out of the situation. We all love Aaron Rodgers but he can’t play forever…

          10. Tom M April 12, 2021

            Undo what exactly? The Jordan Love pick? Last I checked Patrick Queen wasn’t the difference maker that won the Baltimore Ravens the SB. Neither did Tee Higgins get Cincinnati to the playoffs. If we’re talking the difference between Justin Jefferson and Jordan Love then I could buy into what your selling but he was long gone. There simply wasn’t any blue chip players left at 26. And I couldn’t care less that our temperamental, moody QB got upset over the pick. He’s 37, he needs to deal with it.

  9. Steve March 28, 2021

    Love is an insurance policy at the game’s most important position for a team set up to be very competitive over the next couple years, barring catastrophic injury to multiple key players. Green Bay was able to extend/restructure several high-impact players this past year, allowing the play of certain players next season to determine the Packers’ future investment in them against Rodgers’ performance and health. The odds are that Green Bay will be highly competitive the next two years with Rodgers under center as they attempt to develop Love and another lower round selection/undrafted free agent into competent starters. At that point Rodgers could be extended and Love traded, or Rodgers could be traded if Love’s development proves sufficient to replace the 39 year old Rodgers at that time, and with two seasons left to work an extension with Love (with the 5th year option). You just saw what the 49ers gave up in terms of draft capitol to draft a quarterback who may or may not pan out; the Packers, meanwhile, swapped first round picks and gave up a fourth rounder plus their first rounder for a player in Love that may or may not have as much upside as whoever San Fran ends up drafting. Much more of a low-risk, high reward approach taken by Green Bay.

    1. PF4L March 30, 2021

      I could give a flying F what the 49er’s do. They did something that looks very costly and what might be stupid. That doesn’t make the Packers “look good”
      It has no bearing on the Packers.
      They obviously are committed to draft a certain player.
      Remind you of anyone?
      LOW RISK?….HIGH REWARD?…..Not helping your current team get better, to get to a SB now, while the getting was good.
      In the last 3 drafts, 2 of our 3 1st round picks are 2 bench player, or more accurately, 1 bench player, and a guy not likely to contribute.

      In the 2nd round, we have 1 starter, and 2 bench players
      That’s is not….a great batting average.
      I call that….HIGH RISK…LOW REWARD

  10. PF4L March 28, 2021

    Down the hall……
    March 28, 2021 at 07:34 pm
    Hank, i remember a guy named Tony Mandarich. When he suffered in his first year or two.
    Milwaukee sports writers THEN came out saying it takes 3-4 years to learn the position.
    I laughed about that then, and i was just a kid whose life revolved around sports, especially the Packers. By the end of year 2 everyone knew Mandarich was off the juice. The players use to joke that in the locker room, you could literally see his body shrinking.
    I’ve never heard any of that 3-4 year development concerning Bakhtiari, Elgton Jenkins, or Alexander and i’m pretty damn sure no one said that about Justin Herbert, Justin Jefferson, Metcalf, Higgins, Lamb, etc.
    I agree players develop at different rates to an extent.
    But it’s not the 80’s anymore.
    Todays NFL is a different world, teams want to know what you are in year 2.
    We hear things like “2nd year leap” in the NFL.
    That’s what teams look for.
    Example: Darnell Savage took a 2nd year leap.
    If you aren’t showing it in your 2nd year, chances are you don’t have it to show.
    Unless of course your a Packer draft pick, they look for 3rd year and 4th year leap, sometimes 5th year.
    Example….they are waiting for ESB’s, Josh Jackson’s, Oren Burks 4th year leap,
    You get the picture.

    1. Mick March 29, 2021

      We all know busts happen to every team now and then, and at every position. I remember TT and BG often stating it takes 2,3, maybe 4 years for players to develop. Hell, Gute used that excuse last year when questioned why he didn’t select a much needed WR in the draft. You would expect that logic to be true when trying to make starters out of 5th, 6th, 7th rounders and UDFA’s. Todays college athletes are well prepared for the pro game. In fact, the pro game has changed so much within the last decade, that it resembles a lot of the college game. That’s why we see so many positions filled by 1st year players making an instant impact. We see it all around the league, at every position. Also, former GM Bill Polian and others, stated that the game today at the high school level has changed from ” the old run the ball”, to a lot more passing and spread the field type offenses. That means young athletes are developing at an earlier age and why there are a lot more freshmen in college starting and leaving college earlier to the pro game. So, the theory of taking 3, 4 years to develop is out dated. If you don’t know what you have by year 2; perhaps you’ll never know!

      1. PF4L March 29, 2021

        When Gute answered they take 2,3,4 years to develop.

        If was the reporter asking i would have followed it up with…..

        Well…how many years does it take receivers to develop that have been drafted in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds by the Packers?

  11. Stiggy March 29, 2021

    A bit off topic…but alluding back to a past conversation I had on this board. Coradarelle Patterson liked a tweet from a fan who said he should join GB. Could it be jockeying for a deal or sticking it to the bears? Sure…or it could be a sign of things to come.


    If the price is right I would love to see the packers take a flier on him. He is a lot better than Tyler Ervin on that sweep/motion role and would be the best KR the packers had since Desmond Howard. Could you imagine the packers having good field position or even a return touchdown in a playoff game?


    I feel someone like that (if not him) would greatly open things up. Ervin has done a good job in that role but hes so small he gets hurt too often.

    1. Mick March 29, 2021

      Good point Stig! When was the last time we got excited on a kickoff return? Hell; when was the last time we got even close to a kickoff return for a TD?

      1. PF4L March 29, 2021

        Patterson is looking to join his 5th team in the last 6 years. I’m not sure how picky he’s going to be.

  12. PF4L March 29, 2021

    Patterson was a huge let down after being a first round pick.

    His problems were not that he wasn’t gifted athletically, he was. His problem was he couldn’t learn to play mentally in the NFL.

    When you see a 1st round pick, that talented, then he turned out to be a bust. The first thing i do is look for his wonderlic score.

    You can have all the combine metrics in the world, but if you don’t know when to cut, don’t when to adjust under different looks, don’t know who to block. When you can’t get a NFL playbook in your head, etc. Your bound to have problems.

    1. stiggy March 29, 2021

      I agree he never lived in his potential but hes good in 2 areas the packers need help.

      Howard probably know what the position is called but essentially the motion guy who does jet sweeps. He basically gets a hand off or fake handoff and runs a minimal route tree. Not a lot of mental responsibility…and he is faster than sin and decent with the ball in his hands. If he can get the defense to hesitate for just a second he has done his job. If he can catch the corner hes off to the races.


      Kick Return- catch…run forward.

      1. Howard March 29, 2021

        To me it is just jet motion. You can run it with any of the receivers or running backs. I guess you could also use a TE, but it would defeat the purpose of getting speed to the outside, or the potential to get speed to the outside. To me the faster player the better. Even if you don’t hand the jet motion guy the ball you have potentially caused some defensive players on the perimeter to hesitate.
        I think LaFleur may use Jones more as the jet motion guy with Dillion as the I back. I could see all sorts of options with both in the backfield and using jet motion with Jones. I still think the Packers need to add someone else who could be the jet motion guy. Potentially a slot receiver with speed. I think that guy could be drafted on day three.

    2. BirdDogUni March 31, 2021

      “Patterson was a huge let down after being a first round pick.” So was Desmond Howard…

  13. Howard March 29, 2021

    The Packers have to do more with players under current contracts. Right now the Packers do not have enough cap space to get through the season. The Packers need more cap space to sign draft picks, officially complete the contract for M. Lewis, protect Tonyan if a team tries to poach him, and have an in season reserve.
    I thought that the Packers would complete contract extensions with either Rodgers or Adams, or both to make cap space for 2021. I guess the Packers could cut a couple of players, but it does appear that the front office and head coach like the 2020 team chemistry.
    It may have been foolish for me to think the Packers would sign Rodgers to a new extension this year. Rodgers still has three years left on his contract. How often have the Packers or any NFL team extended a players contract with three years remaining on their contract? I think you could count them on your fingers and maybe only use one hand. I’m not talking about those contracts with void years, or that allow a player to retire and soften the cap hit to a team over extra years that the player won’t be on the field.
    Rodgers is a special player, and if anyone deserves a contract extension with three years remaining on their existing contract it would be Rodgers or Brady. I don’t think Brady ever had his contract extended with three years remaining on a current contract?
    The other potential problem with extending Rodgers right now is QB contracts tend to take some time to negotiate. A QB who just earned NFL MVP may take longer.
    In hindsight it may be more likely that Adams is extended first. I know players look at the dollars, but I don’t think Adams extends with the Packers unless Adams believes Rodgers is going to be extended. In fact I’m not sure Bakhtiari would have extended with the Packers without some discussion with Rodgers.
    Extending both Rodgers and Adams will be some big cap hits in future years. If keeping the team chemistry together is a goal for the Packers FO then I don’t see how you cut out your top two of three most explosive offensive weapons.

    1. PF4L March 29, 2021

      Wait until next season when the salary cap provides even more fun.

      We’re already over the cap with only 30 players signed for 2022.

      Let the games begin.

      1. Mick March 29, 2021

        Exactly; they keep kicking the can down the road. The longer they do it; the bigger the bill becomes. It will come due, when the Rodgers era in GB is done. In the meantime, we better enjoy #12 while he is here, because after he is gone; we’ll see if our FO can re-build a team.

  14. PF4L March 29, 2021

    Howard, i think your comment about Adams extending and Bakhtiari’s new deal, while referencing it to Rodgers future presence, might be a valid one.

    But remember, Rodgers has repeatedly said he wanted to end his career here, and i believe him 100%.
    Gute and the boys may have a different idea. Unless Rodgers forces their hand and wins another MVP at 38 years old.

    Sometimes this stuff (drama) gets so convoluted when it’s actually very very simple.
    Try my simple version on.

    The Packers have a high priced HOF QB signed up for 4 more years who wants to finish his career here.
    The Packers decide to trade up and draft a 1st round QB for four years.
    The Packers brain trust didn’t foresee any future problems or drama coming?
    Everything about this, is on the Packers

    1. Howard March 29, 2021

      I could be very wrong. This is what I think happened. In 2017 and 2018 Rodgers became very aggravated with MM’s offense. Rodgers was probably concerned years before, but winning cures some problems. I put Rodgers aggravation in the category of Russell Wilson this last year, only Rodgers was more vocal on the field. Both passing offenses were setup to spread out receivers and depend on them to win their matchup. There was very little scheming or integrated route combinations to get receivers open. For the most part that philosophy does not work in today’s NFL. Thus the reason Seattle fired their offensive coordinator after the season.
      We all saw Rodgers butt heads with MM and show great frustration during games. In 2019 Rodgers was learning a new system and during a few games it appeared Rodgers and LaFleur were butting heads. Not as much as with MM, but it clearly occurred.
      My guess is the Packers FO including LaFleur were not sure that Rodgers was going to buy into LaFleur’s system. I believe that is the thought process that resulted in drafting Love. I think LaFleur can be flexible, but he felt strongly that his base system is the way to play winning offense.
      Then something strange happened. No off season OTAs. What do you do. You set down with your QB, offensive coordinator, QB coach, and Head coach. You go threw the offensive philosophy in detail, you get rid of plays that don’t work, and incorporate plays that work for both coach and QB. You spend way more time on the chalkboard/film with detailed discussion than you ever would in OTAs.
      Rodgers and LaFleur started seeing eye to eye on the offensive philosophy. Both bent a little and came up with a system that both felt comfortable with. The problem was the Packers drafted a QB before all the brainstorming took place. The Packers FO and LaFleur at the end of 2019 were not sure that Rodgers would buy into LaFleur’s offensive system and they needed a backup plan.
      I really think now that LaFleur and Rodgers are for the most part on the same page, Love will not be a Packer starting QB unless Rodgers is hurt or retires. That does not mean Rodgers doesn’t want more guarantees regarding future years and yes, MONEY.

      1. Dean March 29, 2021

        Well said Howard!!

      2. PF4L March 29, 2021

        I have a feeling Rodgers would be happy with his money guaranteed, reflecting a commitment.
        I can’t say one way or the other if he wanted a raise, but i don’t see that from him.
        Last season….i saw a lot of smiles and comradery between Rodgers and LaFluer last season, along with the rest of the team on the sidelines.
        One or the other may have disagreed on a play call or something but i’d hardly call it Rodgers rejecting LaFleur, or a feud.
        They are both grown adults with ego’s who do their own thinking. I’d be worried if they didn’t have little flare ups here and there.
        I agree with you on about everything you said about this off season, that’s well documented.
        But….i think the progression of the offense started in 2019. Things were implemented, blocking assignments, plays, timing etc. I think the 2020 offense benefited from the initial 2019 season of learning a new system.
        Meaning…they didn’t go into the 2020 season cold, starting fresh. They played too well right from the start. I think implementing things in 2019 paved the way and helped the progression into 2020.

        I’m sure there was a meeting of the minds, even back in 2019.
        It has to be a process that takes more than a few month to implement a new offensive mind.
        Lets make no mistake…. the fact it would be damn challenging for Rodgers, after doing the same things for 13 seasons, to change everything at one time seamlessly. 13 years of repetition is a hard animal to retrain.

        Matter of fact, i can remember saying the same thing during the 2019 season, because you could clearly see shades of his play from the past.
        They recommunicated and adjusted in the 2020 off season , but they also benefited from what was implemented and started in 2019.

        That is also why i’ve showed great respect to all three, Rodgers, LaFluer and Hackett for ironing this offense out into what it became last season.

        But it wasn’t just those 3, i think all the players get credit, they generally all knew where to be, what to do, they knew their assignments.
        One other thing about 2019, i think Rodgers had a great year. People are probably scratching their heads over that but i’m sticking by it for a few reasons.

        1) Rodgers is trying to shake off 13 years and master a new offense.
        2) People think a 95 passer rating is a shitty year for Rodgers….imagine that
        3) Rodgers had Jones and Adams as his main weapons. 1 proven receiver
        4) 26 TD’s and 4 picks….the reason Rodgers TD’s were down, bringing down his passer rating is because Jones picked up the slack for the lack of receivers, by rushing for 16 TD’s

        * In 2020 it was Jones and Tonyan who picked up the slack. I have no doubt it was a conscious effort to involve Tonyan more into the game plan. MVS also made a few more plays from 2019.

        I stick by my guns….It was the Packers brain trust and no one else who decided that drafting Love was in their best interest.

        Packer management always say…they do what’s in the best interest of the team.

        Well i say….They made their bed

        1. PF4L March 29, 2021

          *Last season – 2019

        2. BirdDogUni March 31, 2021

          “It was the Packers brain trust and no one else who decided that drafting Love was in their best interest.” AR12 just screwed up the best laid plans of mice and men… He played like the MVP he is. The longer Gutey digs in his heels, the worse this situation is going to get. I fully expect Gutey to trade Rodgers next year, but what if AR were to win the Super Bowl this season? How can you trade away the best QB your franchise has ever had, who incidentally just won his 2nd Super Bowl? I don’t see how you can. (Ravens let Dilfer walk, but that’s not the same as trading him for a King’s Ransom…) On the flip-side, if AR were to win another SB, his stock would never be higher. He could give the Packers the draft picks they need to sustain success during the LOVE era… Don’t see how you can not trade AR and enjoy the cap savings? This is one huge Double-Edged Sword…

          1. PF4L April 1, 2021

            Wow, that’s dumbest thing anyone has ever posted on this site (and you’ve posted some stupid shit).

          2. PF4L April 1, 2021

            1) Your original user name
            2) thequick12
            3) P4FL’s Stupid Brain
            4) BirdDogUni

            Listen Nancy…
            Pick one name, and stick with it.