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Packer Meltdowns Are Becoming a Habit

Despite Sunday’s rout, Coach Matt LaFleur still has a spectacular regular-season record of 17 wins and only four losses. Even so, those losses fall into a rather disturbing pattern.

The Tampa Bay Loss

This game promised to be an intriguing one: Brady versus Rodgers; an undefeated Packers team; Green Bay having several players returning from injuries; a well-rested Packers crew following their bye week. The game, which most believed would be a close affair, instead quickly turned into a rout. Still, there are lessons to be learned.

A good many forecasters felt this game would be decided not by the two future HOF quarterbacks, but by which defense would put the most pressure on the opposing QB. They were right.

Green Bay suffered five sacks on Sunday – after going the first four games with only three. The Bucs’ pass rushers lived up to their billing: in addition to all the sacks, they registered 13 QB hits on Rodgers – several of which were violent. Meanwhile, the Packers’ pass rush was all but non-existent: no sacks and only four QB hits – and this was despite the return of Kenny Clark and Rashon Gary to the lineup.

The Packers defensive secondary fared no better. The group had no – zero – passes defended, fumbles caused, or turnovers, and only 1.5 tackles for loss. Tampa Bay, on the other hand, had six passes defended, eight TFLs, and two interceptions.

In sum, it was a letdown by the entire team.

 

Oct 18, 2020; Tampa, Florida, USA; Green Bay Packers running back Aaron Jones (33) is tackled by Tampa Bay Buccaneers outside linebacker Jason Pierre-Paul (90) during the third quarter of a NFL game at Raymond James Stadium. Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports

 

A Momentum Tsunami

There is almost no bigger momentum changer than a pick-six. I suppose you might cite a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown, but those are rare indeed.

What happened early in the second quarter would rattle any player and any team. Aaron Rodgers is intercepted by Jamel Dean, who goes untouched into the end zone. Three plays later, second-string safety Mike Edwards nearly does the same, by intercepting and returning the ball thirty-seven yards to the 2-yard line, with the Bucs scoring on the next play. In less than 90 seconds, the score went from 10-0 to 14-10.

Credit the Bucs, as both turnovers were the result of opportunistic plays by the defensive backs. Both interceptions were gems. Jamel Dean jumped the play on an otherwise precise pass, and CB Carlton Davis tipped the second pass, which again was otherwise right on target. In each case, it was Davante Adams who failed to gain sufficient separation from defenders in third-down situations.

The Pack never bounced back at all. Thirty-eight unanswered points by the Bucs was the result. Make no mistake, the Buccaneers played inspired football – I would add that there were 15,540 fans rooting for them in the seats.

You could point to Rodgers’ poor performance – he had a passer rating of 35.4 for the game. But I view it more as a breakdown by the entire team. The Packers had come out and scored on both of its first two drives. It therefore wasn’t a matter of coming out flat – it was a failure to respond well to the sudden turns of events.

As many have noted, shortly after the two interceptions, Rodgers, with good protection, had Marcedes Lewis wide open deep in the middle of the field; but he badly overthrew him. The play would have likely been a 75-yard touchdown. It was the perfect, and unexpected, call by LaFleur, as Lewis had been used almost exclusively as a blocker up to this point in the season. You gotta make those chunk plays!

The Bucs rode a tsunami of momentum for the rest of the game. They could do no wrong, defensively or offensively. And they didn’t let up – well into the fourth quarter, Brady was still hurling deep balls in an effort to add to the score. As for Tom Terrific, though he was average statistically (166 passing yards and a passer rating of 104.9), he delivered at least four precision looping passes to his closely-guarded receivers, including a couple to Rob Gronkowski. The Bucs made the chunk plays.

Tampa Bay is suddenly, and deservedly, in the Super Bowl conversation. Green Bay has just as suddenly dropped out of that conversation – for now at least.

Packer Meltdowns

LaFleur’s three other losses as a head coach were: at home in Week 4 of 2019 to the Eagles 34-27; in Los Angeles to the Chargers in Week 9, 26-11; and in Week 12, following a bye week, to the 49ers, 37-8. These losses reveal some patterns and similarities.

The momentum breaker against the Eagles was a fumble by Rodgers with two minutes to go in the first half, which Philadelphia turned into a touchdown less than a minute later. The Eagles ran up 21 points in that second quarter.

The loss to the Chargers was more unexpected, as they compiled only five wins in 2019. Though this game featured no turnovers by either team, the Chargers took the opening kickoff and immediately took the starch out of Green Bay with an 8-minute, 15-play opening drive. Though the Packers didn’t fall apart until midway into the third quarter, Philip Rivers and crew had their way with the leaky Packers defense all game long. The Chargers outgained the Pack, 442 to 184 yards.

Offensively, Rodgers went 23 for 35, but only for 161 yards, most of which came well after the outcome was decided. The score would have been more lopsided, except that the Chargers settled for four field goals in the first half..

LaFleur’s worst regular-season loss – at least prior to Sunday – came last year in California, in Week 12 to the 49ers. The 37-8 score was nearly identical to Sunday’s outcome, in a game that also followed a bye week for the Packers.

The take down by the 49ers was brutal. San Francisco scored 23 unanswered points in the first half alone. The momentum-shifter came less than two minutes into the contest, when Rodgers scrambled around for an 11-yard loss, fumbled, and Nick Bosa recovered and ran it down to the 2-yard line. As with Sunday’s game, it took just one play following the giveaway for the Niners to reach the end zone.

 

Oct 18, 2020; Tampa, Florida, USA; Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers (12) is sacked by Tampa Bay Buccaneers inside linebacker Devin White (45) during the fourth quarter of a NFL game at Raymond James Stadium. Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports

 

Conclusions

So, three of LaFleur’s team’s losses were routs, three featured sudden and huge momentum shifts, and three displayed devastating turnovers by Rodgers. It was some consolation that three of the four losses came against quality teams.

When faced with serious adversity, this bunch of Packers tend to fall apart. All systems shut down – though it’s been the offense that has made the blunders, the defense also seems to simultaneously lose their confidence and spark.

Certainly, the coaching staff needs to find ways to get the team back on track following big momentum swings. I’m inclined to fault the players, however, more than the coaches, for a lack of leadership.

Za’Darius Smith is the player the rest of the defensive unit looks to. His stats on the evening: one assisted tackle. Preston Smith’s only stat was also one tackle. Another veteran who should be doing more to rally the troops, both with his passion and verbal urging, is six–year veteran Adrian Amos.

On offense, Aaron Rodgers is not only the team leader and veteran presence, he’s in the best position to right the ship. Given how youthful the team is, I’d also like to see Davante Adams, now in his seventh season, provide more inspiration to his mates.

Unless I’ve missed it, when the team leaders of the Packers are on the sidelines during low points, they are usually seated and sulking on the bench. They should be emulating the likes of Tom Brady, and Gronkowski for that matter, who in critical times are all over their teammates, urging them on, challenging them, and sometimes holding them accountable. A couple other relentless team leaders who come to mind are, or were, Russell Wilson and Peyton Manning. The 2020 Packers could use a Reggie White or a Charles Woodson right about now.

And though I’ve just been praising Coach LaFleur for his calmness and discipline, when the team is reeling like it was on Sunday, something else is called for: emotion, displeasure, resolve, commitment. But nobody was there to push the reset button for the Packers on Sunday.

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Rob Born

Smart drafters don’t select the best available players, they fill a team’s positions of greatest need.

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65 Comments

  1. Ferris October 21, 2020

    Fat Mike’s post game comments about what his players are saying were better TV than this pathetic effort.

    One player said the coaches are “totally unprepared” and “they don’t have any sense of adjusting on the fly.”

    Another player told Slater the coaches “just aren’t good at their jobs.”

    All anyone had to do was call ANYONE who posts here and we could have told them and Jerry.

    Reply
  2. PF4L October 21, 2020

    I can’t find McCarthy’s press conference directly after the game. Did they cancel it?…lol
    .
    A thought comes to mind. Back when McCarthy was with the Packers, we all know how pissy and arrogant he could/would get with the press. He escaped some pressure and uncomfortable press conferences by being fired before the season ended.
    .
    Now that he is with the Cowboys, Karma isn’t letting him off the hook. He had high expectations for obvious reasons. But i watch his pressers that i can find, and i see a different McCarthy as far as his personality. He comes off as more humbled, a lot less arrogant, and i’ve seen no aggression from him to any reporter, unlike Green Bay.
    .
    The reasons for that imo. He’s new in Dallas and he has zero clout. He had gobs of clout in Green Bay, and it showed. There seems to be a lot of former Cowboys, expert NFL talking heads, discussing that McCarthy will soon be let go. We’ll see what happens. It’s pretty damn hard to keep your coaching job in the NFL if you have your own players taking shots at you.

    Reply
    1. Ferris October 21, 2020

      Let go? Sign me up for that job! He got a 5 year deal. Fire my ass and give me my cash is what I would say. 5 years….5 games…it’s pretty much the same thing.

      Reply
      1. PF4L October 21, 2020

        Yea..taking pride out of the equation if he got fired, he’s sitting pretty with tens of millions guaranteed.

        Reply
  3. PF4L October 21, 2020

    I have to add something. Everyone here knows that i don’t care much for McCarthy, but i have on occasion given him his due when it’s deserved. That’s how i roll.
    .
    I’m going to somewhat do it again…….I am not a fan of players taking shots at him/(anyone) anonymously like they have been. This is the NFL, they are professional’s. If you have something to say (even if true), walk up to the mans face and say it. Or….at the least, express your team’s business concerns to the GM.The GM can address it, what’s the reporter supposed to do? Other than be your tool to disparage someone. It’s a weak move, and no one respects it.
    .
    This could be one player saying this, but it comes off as if it’s the team speaking, it’s bullshit and classless.
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    Nobody respects the player(s) who did this and how it went down.

    Reply
  4. Big B October 21, 2020

    Interesting symmetry between the Packers and Cowboys games: Back 2 Back ARod picks lead straight to 14 points and Back 2 Back Zeke fumbles lead straight to 14 points. Blow outs to follow.
    Packers D has created 3 turnovers in 5 games, so even though offensive has been thrifty the differential is only +1, which doesn’t get it done. Defense doesn’t attack, rarely creates turnovers, and misses tackles routinely. There was at least one missed tackle on every defensive series against TB. Lowry, P Smith, and A Amos should have their pictures posted in the Most Wanted section of the Post Office- they’re stealing money, not making plays. If this trend continues there needs to be a major makeover once again- how many is this since 2010? Too much money and draft capital wasted. Gutey should be on notice.

    Reply
  5. Skinny October 21, 2020

    We trade for JJ Watt yet? Hopefully hes on the plane home to WI with his new Packer teammates after Sunday’s game. Im all for this trade. He would provide juice on defense and instant leadership which this team needs badly. If Gute has any balls he makes this trade. Thats all i have to say about that.

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 23, 2020

      So your saying you want Gute to “all in” to win it?
      .
      What part of the last 2 1/2 years gives you the impression that Gute wants to go all in and win it?
      .
      Was it the fact he wont spend any high draft resources on receivers?
      .
      Was it the fact he spent the #12 pick for a bench player when they had no need for him?
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      Was it the fact he traded up to draft a QB for the future?
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      Was it the fact he drafted a rb in the 2nd round of a draft when we really didn’t have a need for that position?
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      Was it the fact that he drafted a tight end in the 3rd round to make up for the drafting of Jace Sterberger in last years 3rd round?
      .
      Is it because everyone drafted 6 months ago isn’t helping this team win because they all ride the bench?
      .
      Then when all of those have been answered….consider JJ Watt is going to cost you 17.5 million, and a high draft pick or player, or both.
      Keeping in mind we have 4 free agents….. arguably the leagues best left tackle and center. Then Aaron Jones, and Kevin King….and sign Watt?…….all with a shrinking salary cap?
      .
      JJ Watt ain’t coming here my friend.

      Reply
  6. NobodysBurfect October 21, 2020

    We simply don’t have the players to be competitive. I know that’s reductive, but you all know it’s the truth. You can’t blatantly ignore entire position groups year after year and not expect it to bite you in the ass. Football is a team sport – every loss is a team loss. Are there certain position groups that matter more? Of course – and to be fair, the Packers have generally found stars in those positions. But it takes more than a QB, Left Tackle, Wide Receiver, and CB to win a football game.

    Barnes has been a pleasant surprise, but our MLB unit has been a joke for years. Clark is fantastic, but our D-line behind him simply can’t get the job done. Tonyan is playing fantastic and Lewis can block, but they aren’t complete players like Kelce/Gronk/Kittle. I could go on, but you all know the other areas where we see this.

    I don’t know how much the front office really believes in the whole “best player available” shit, but if they really do they need to snap out of it. In a team sport, you can’t ignore a position because you deem it “less valuable” than another. Players get hurt – if you don’t have depth behind them, you’re fucked. Opposing coaches do their homework, and if they see that you’ve devalued a position, they’re going to exploit it. I’m not sure what hubris guides our GM’s into thinking they’ve outsmarted everyone, but I swear the ghost of Ted Thompson is still haunting this team (and yeah I know he’s not actually dead).

    Reply
  7. Cheese October 21, 2020

    You covered LaFluer’s regular season meltdowns but don’t leave out the NFCCG at San Francisco. Blown out by SF twice in one year. GB didn’t score a single point until the third quarter while their opponent had almost 30 points. Pretty much the exact situation as the 2016 NFCCG against Atlanta. Same level playoff game, same result, different coach. I can tolerate a team losing when they put up a fight and leave everything out on the field, but not when they get completely embarrassed to the point where it looks like they had absolutely no business being there in the first place.

    Reply
    1. Kato October 22, 2020

      Good post. This team has lost far too many blowout games. It’s like they rarely lose a hard fought close game. When they lose, they absolutely shit the bed. Or, they lose in epic fashion (the NFC championship against Seattle).

      Reply
  8. PF4L October 22, 2020

    Yea…idk…
    .
    Maybe i’ve been a Packer fan too long.
    .
    Seems to me that meltdowns are more of a pattern, than becoming a habit.
    .
    2012 Playoff….didn’t the Packers give up almost 600 yards to the 9’ers?
    2013..Week 1..Didn’t we give up 500 yards to the 9ers as Colin dipshit passed for over 400 yards?
    2013..Week 13,,,Didn’t we give up over 500 yards to Detroit?
    2014…Week 8…Didn’t we give up 500 yards to the Saints in a beatdown?
    2014…Playoff…Who can forget about the NFCCG Meltdown? I never will be able to.
    2015…Week 16….38-8 beatdown by the Cardinals. the O line was worse than last Sunday, Rodgers sacked 8 times, 4 turnovers
    2016…Week 10…Titans…446 yards given up…47 points
    2016…Week 11…Redskins…515 yards given up…42 points
    2016…NFCCG….Falcons…500 yards….44 points
    Trust me…there is more.
    ……………………
    I’m gonna quit now just because…..pattern…..not becoming a habit.
    I’m thinking everyone gets the jist. That’s without mentioning the 2 games AP rushed for 200 yards each.
    .
    It’s fair to note, that starting in the 2012 draft (take a look)…is when the defense started getting most of our draft resources through the years..
    Not counting the last draft of 3 offensive players currently roaming the sidelines doing bench patrol.

    Reply
  9. kelly October 22, 2020

    Maybe it is time for a complete overhaul in the scouting department. Really sick of the drafting”best player available”, concept..(who is finding these guys??) and trying to fill a hole with practice squad undrafted free agents. Its not the 70s and 80s anymore ,where people went to Packer games “just to go”. Fans have been spoiled and want a CHAMPION..not a friking sledding hill!! The key to champions is a Great QB (which they have) a good defense, which they don’t have, and above average role players…which they have few,but far between. Undrafted Free Agents are undrafted for a reason. Same old same old. Thompsons stench still remains at 1265 Lombardi

    Reply
  10. PF4L October 22, 2020

    I was skimming through LeFleur’s pressers looking for anything on injured players. I didn’t hear him asked one question concerning that. I remember with McCarthy, they usually came somewhere in the beginning of the presser.
    .
    It seems so odd that i’m wondering if the reporters have been directed to not go there. It seems like the only logical conclusion i can come up with.
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    I mean…..how many weeks has it been, and we know nothing…nothing about Kirksey? I gotta call bs.
    .
    “Kirksey’s injury was initially reported as a shoulder issue, but the Packers’ injury report yesterday indicated he’s actually dealing with a pectoral injury. Injuries were the big concern with Kirksey when he was signed. He had only played in nine games the previous two seasons.” – Jon Meerdink
    .
    That was the last i heard, written Oct. 4th.
    …………………………………………………………………
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    I don’t care if he is right most of the time. This PF4L guy sure gets full of himself sometimes, and it’s irritating.
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    PF4L March 16, 2020
    I get nervous when i read he’s being reunited with Pettine. I’ve heard that song before. The last time the other guy didn’t play many games, or stay in the league very long.
    *
    He shares some similarity’s with Wilkerson in the aspect of his best production years were 2,3 years before we signed him, regardless of the reason.
    *
    I’m just not sure how you look at this guy’s last 2 seasons and figure he’s good for 8 mil/year. Yes, i know he was injured. but availability isn’t a minor detail.
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    Packer fans would blast Bulaga for being injured. But this cat missed 23 out of 32 games the last 2 seasons. That’s real.
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    I think the signing was a prayer and a reach if you want to base it on recent history. Wilkerson was also very ineffective his 2 seasons before we signed him, but for a different reason.
    *
    I don’t get it, and i think Gute’s rolling the dice, but we’ll see what happens.

    Reply
  11. Kato October 22, 2020

    Yeah, I agree with PF4L. This isn’t a habit, it’s a pattern. I think there are a few reasons for it. Keep in mind, the personnel has largely changed from year to year. Coaching largely didn’t until the last few years. The defense is everyone’s favorite whipping boy, and rightfully so. But let’s not forget the offense struggled mightily in a lot of these performances. The divisional game against the Giants the year after winning the super bowl, if memory serves me correct, Packers receivers dropped six or seven passes in that game. Was there a lack of focus in that game because Philbin’s son died days before the game? I think it would be shortsighted to rule that out.
    .
    The following year the 49ers rushed for 300 yards. That off-season was the big “stopping the read option offense off-season.”
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    The following year the offense was in a position to be able to win that game, but didn’t. Although it should be noted that Sam Shields let an interception to potentially win the game go through his hands.
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    Don’t want to talk about the next year, Rodgers shit his pants and picked the worst time to play one of his worst career games, and the defense epically failed at the end.
    .
    Falcons tear up Packers defense while the offense scores 0 first half points and turns it over twice.
    *
    Last year, same thing as Falcons game, except against 49ers.
    .
    Those are just the playoff games. The 2013 wildcard game and the loss to the Cardinals are the only losses I look at and look at as remotely acceptable. They at least were close, and were in a position to win both games. Sprinkle in some regular season games that have been mentioned and it has been a pattern of this team for a decade. The team kept a defensive coordinator that has lost his way for too long. They kept McCarthy for too long, besides some of the issues with play calling, he couldn’t make in game adjustments. Fast forward to now. I love what LaFleur has done with this team. I love the offensive system. But here is a problem I am noticing. The offense can’t seem to adjust to being down a couple of scores. Or really any kind of adversity. Take last week for example. The Bucs LBs were flying to the ball nearly every play. The team literally doesn’t have a backup option to Tyler Ervin. The yards per play disparity on plays with motion vs without is staggering. It didn’t seem like any adjustments were made. There is no excuse for the offense scoring 10 points while the bears offense scored 20 against the same exact opponent. There also doesn’t appear to be any real leadership when the team faces adversity. There are no coaches on the sideline rallying players (like Kevin Greene). There are no vocal leaders among the players. Every team has embarrassing games here and there. Even the good ones. But it seems when this team plays another talented team, and something goes wrong, the team goes into full meltdown mode. At this point, it feels like a mentality, and it starts with veteran players and coaches.

    Reply
  12. Howard October 22, 2020

    I see the pattern of blowouts being slightly different than some. First the Packers are not a tier 1 team, in fact the Packers may not be at the top of the list of tier 2 teams. The Packers are probably more of a mid-tier 2 team. The Packers may be able to be a top tier 2 team by seasons end, but that is probably going to get your ass booted from the playoffs. The question is how bad are the Packers going to get their asses beat by a tier 1 Playoff team, not if they are going to be beat.
    .
    If you look at what good head coaches and defensive coordinators do is they try to take away the other teams most dangerous players. The good coaches/coordinators usually accomplish their goals to some degree, even though that may mean another player may shine for that game.
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    There is no question what player other teams want to take away, or limit from the Packers. QB#1. The very good defenses (tier1) and defensive coordinators can be successful in limiting one key offensive player. When your top offensive player is taken out of a game, or limited other players and groups need to step up.
    .
    Don’t think for a minute QB#1 has not been limited by tier 1 defenses before. Anyone remember the 2010 NFCC game against the bears when QB#1 had like a 33 rating or the Bills 2014 game were QB#1 had like a 50 something rating. Guess who won the 2010 NFCC game? Guess how much the Packers lost to the Bills? 7 points.
    .
    To me the blowout losses for the most part are against Tier 1 defenses, and the problem is the Packers did not have a defense that could stop the bleeding when QB#1 was limited or taken out of the game by the opponent’s tier 1 defense. In 2010 and to a lesser degree in 2014 the Packers defenses held up when the going got tough. Well except the final 5 + minutes in the 2014 NFCC, but at least those Packer defenses kept the game close or still won when QB#1 was limited by tier 1 defenses.
    .
    After the first Bears game last year remember how happy QB#1 was after the game. I think the words, in part, were “We have a defense”. Well that didn’t stay for long. The other day I asked since the Bears game last year when have the Packers defense played a complete game. I had forgot the late Vikings game when QB#1 had a 60 something rating.
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    To me tier 1 defenses can and will limit, or take away your top/most dangerous offensive player. In those instances your defense needs to step up and keep the game close enough that your offense can come back with a balanced attack, rather than having your QB drop back on almost every play, resulting in blowouts and getting your QB beat up, or injured.
    .
    The Packers defense since 2010 have not had a tier 1 defense. The 2014 defense as the season went on started to develop into a low tier 1 defense or top tier 2 defense. Since then the defenses have not for the most part stepped up when needed resulting in blowouts. Personally I think 3-4 defenses are smoke and mirror finesse defenses. 4-3 defenses tend to be more physical defenses. I guess we will see how this year plays out, but I think the Packers need to change the defensive scheme and coordinator. I think LaFleur feels the same, at least as it relates to being more physical on defense. We will have to see if LaFleur feels the same about a 4-3 defense? I think I know the answer.

    Reply
    1. Kato October 23, 2020

      I think you are mostly correct. Although, thinking back specifically to the Buccaneers game, the Packers got pasted. The bears played that same exact team the week before and scored twice as many points. The bears offensive line is not very good, and certainly not as good as the Packers is. It can be argued that the bears might be slightly better at receiver, but the Packers have a clearly better backfield. I just can’t figure out what gives, other than what has been discussed in here before, and that is the offense just doesn’t get run as efficiently when Adams is in the game, particularly against good defenses

      Reply
    2. just_a_regular_fan October 23, 2020

      I disagree that the 3-4 is a finesse defense. It is a smoke and mirrors defense though. But to me, being just a fan, follower, and regular watcher of football, a good 3-4 defense is harder to pull off than a 4-3 defense. I could be wrong though. At least on paper, it seems to require a lot more. You need linebackers that can rush and drop into coverage sometimes in order to create the disguises. You also need good nose tackles and defensive ends to get double teams and not get pushed around.

      The nose tackle should take away 2 of the 5 offensive lineman. That means there is 2 defensive lineman and 2 edge linebackers left, which should be an advantage with 4 total defensive players vs 3 other offensive lineman. So in theory this creates an advantage for the defense on every play unless the offense counters with a tight end to block. But if they do that then that’s one less wide receiver they can have on the field.

      But the Packers are incredibly far away from the basic 3-4 concept already. They really run a 2-4 defense a lot of the time with Clark and Dean lowry in there. And they also play a “thin” 3-4 with gary or zadarious smith on the inside too. Whatever it is, they still don’t have the middle linebackers for this type of defense. And they might not even have the outside linebackers. Preston Smith doesn’t look good in coverage.

      But I’m not sure things get better with a 4-3 switch. Does Preston Smith play defensive end? What does Gary do? Could he play a more traditional linebacker? Or maybe have gary be the defensive end and trade Preston Smith?

      Reply
      1. Kato. October 24, 2020

        Gary is more of a DE, as that is what he played in college. Ideally you would trade Preston Smith, although given he hasn’t played well this year, I don’t know what his value would be. A switch from a 3-4 defense would be difficult at this point.

        Reply
    3. Just a regular fan October 26, 2020

      Your assessment that the packers are a tier 2 team is probably right. I think they’re more like a tier 3 team, average to below average roster, masquerading as a tier 2 team because of Rodgers, but with most of the fans believing they’re tier 1 because of their record.

      Even with Rodgers they don’t really even compete with the NFCs best teams this year or last year. And going back even farther they failed to compete in past games even with a completely different roster. Not only do they lose big again this year they get totally embarrassed again.

      If Rodgers was out this team would struggle to win. Maybe that’s true of most teams, but I think a good roster could maintain their record without the starting qb with good defensive play and a running game. It seems like the packers have the running game at times but the defense is still a mess.

      Reply
  13. PF4L October 22, 2020

    I’m going to make a point…and then venture back to paraphrasing our Def Coordinator from years back.
    .
    Aaron Rodgers is going to have bad games. It’s the same for him as any other QB, it just is, what it is. As Howard stated, it’s largely due to a solid defense and/or a competent Def. Coordinator opposing him. It’s hard for a QB to get traction when the front line is being steamrolled and the QB is being sacked, hit and hurried on 75-80% of his drop backs. It’s happened in the past, it happened last Sunday, and it will sure as hell happen in the future.
    Aaron Rodgers, or any other QB past, present, and future, cannot have a passer rating over 100 every single game. It’s impossible.
    When a segment of a team is struggling, for whatever reason, another segment of the team needs to try to pick up the slack. THAT’S WHY THEY CALL IT A TEAM.
    The Packers offense over the years, has largely picked up the slack over an underperforming defense. that’s expected if they have that luxury. It’s a TEAM.
    Conversely…when the offense struggles, you’d like to see the defense step up. Like how they did the first 3,or 4 games last season. We haven’t seen that defense for awhile.
    ……………………..
    I want to take you back to the first time i wanted Capers fired. It was towards the end of the 2011 season. No…it wasn’t because his defense went from 5th to 32nd. That had little to do with it.
    A reporter asked Capers about his defense , questioning why is defense had fallen so far down from the previous season.
    Capers smiled at the reporter and said….when you have Aaron Rodgers and all the points they score, it doesn’t matter.
    When you say something like that, it means only 2 things. You aren’t taking your job seriously, and you show no responsibility at all whatsoever in being accountable. If that statement wasn’t a huge flag, i don’t know what was.
    I get pissed off to this very day remembering that.
    ………………………………………..
    The past dysfunction of this team actually makes me feel sick to my stomach. They won a Super Bowl and upper management gets rich and enjoys job security, everybody eats, gets fat, and arrogant.

    Reply
  14. Mick October 22, 2020

    Whether we have a 3-4 defense or a 4-3 defense, you need the talent to fill the positions for that particular scheme. We don’t have the athletes because for some reason or another, Pettine doesn’t seem to value the DL or inside backers. He values safeties and CB’s and hybrid types like Raven Greene, Sullivan etc. How long have we seen the middle of this defense so vulnerable? It’s been years. And yet, they try to fix it with undrafted FA’s or players with injury concerns. Last year the Niners had 4 number1 picks on the defensive line. We have 1, (Clark). I agree with you all on taking the best player available in the draft is not a good strategy in todays NFL. That strategy is OK if you already have a dominant team already in place. We don’t. It also worked when you had a new team coming into the league that was devoid of talent. Todays NFL is changing so fast and dynasties are becoming more rare. I would think going into the draft knowing you need help at certain positions, you would address that position in the 1st 3 rounds. Don’t bypass an obvious need to pick another athlete at a position that you already have talent at. But, I understand you don’t reach for a need either. This organization doesn’t seem to see it that way. On a different note, did any of you see that when #12 was rattled in the 2nd half of the Bucs’ game when he dropped back to pass, he only looked for #17? Quite a few times there were guys open on the other side of the field and #12 didn’t even look over there. This is a Rodgers problem, and LaFleur needs to fix it.

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 22, 2020

      Bench him, until he learns how to play the position. Someone needs to go up there and teach him how to go through his reads.
      I’ll be honest, it’s long overdue and i’m getting G D sick of his shit.

      Reply
    2. Kato October 23, 2020

      We can’t criticize Aaron Rodgers here.
      *
      A long read, but very interesting for those of us that notice the offense struggles more when Davante Adams is on the field. Analytics seem to confirm what we see
      https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/is-the-lafleurrodgers-offense-better-off-without-davante-a-look-into-the-data-430

      Reply
  15. Ferris October 22, 2020

    I see a pattern of really long post by everyone commenting. I don’t have that kind of attention span!

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 22, 2020
      Reply
  16. PF4L October 22, 2020

    On a lighter note…much like the Lonely Boy coming in here. The queens have officially….given up.
    .
    Newly acquired Yannick Ngakoue was traded to the already stout Ravens for a 3rd round and conditional 5th round pick.
    In what i think is related news. Danielle Hunter is having neck surgery to repair a herniated disc and is out for the season.
    If ya’ll remember, the queens were hoping to bring back Hunter after 3 weeks of being on I R.
    .
    For some reason the name Christian Kirksey is popping into my head. Why? I really can’t say.

    Reply
    1. Ferris October 22, 2020

      A report said they traded a 2nd and 5th to get him. So they could have done nothing and been better off? I am available to be a GM. I know I can do better than that by doing nothing.

      Reply
      1. Big B October 23, 2020

        Even better, it will be a HIGH 2nd if their current futility continues, and they’ll get back a LATE 3rd since BAL figures to st least make the playoffs. This gives me great joy.

        Reply
  17. Mick October 22, 2020

    Great point PF4L. Arrogance has been a problem in the last decade, and I see some now with Gutey sometimes. I remember that quote from Capers, and here are a few from some of McCarthys pressers. When asked about speed at receiver, he said it was overrated when the weather got colder. Well, from the football I’ve seen in my life, the cold hinders everyone..Another time when asked about when the team had a big lead and let the lead slip away in the 2nd half, he said,,,, listen, i don’t care if the other team scores 34 as long as we score 35. Which brings me to realize what they thought about defense, and speed in general. After the shellacking the Pack took twice in SF last year, Guteys’ said he wasn’t going to make decisions based oof of one team or game,,,,,,,,,,,, ya, arrogance to the max.

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 22, 2020

      Exactly….through the years, they used Aaron Rodgers scoring skills, as a crutch, instead of addressing other team problems.

      Reply
  18. Mick October 22, 2020

    Wow, looks like the Queens ship is sinking!

    Reply
    1. Skinny October 22, 2020

      Its been sinking since the good ship lollipop set sail on Lake Minnetonka back in 05.

      Reply
      1. PF4L October 23, 2020

        good ship lollipop set sail
        .
        I think it starting sinking at the beginning of the Super Bowl era.

        Reply
  19. PF4L October 22, 2020

    Covid update….
    I wrote a short post on how out of control the virus pandemic was about 2 weeks or so ago.
    It is so much worse now.
    Wisconsin is one of 15 States who has had more than 10,000 cases the last 7 days.
    That’s the sugar coated version, it’s much worse.
    The reality is Wisconsin has had 27,522 cases the last 7 days.

    Reply
    1. Kato October 23, 2020

      Yeah man, it’s getting pretty out of control everywhere. Hope you are staying safe

      Reply
  20. Skinny October 22, 2020

    Too bad we cant clone either Fritz Shurmur or Jim Bates. Would love either one of those guys right about now.

    Reply
    1. Ferris October 22, 2020

      Bates named his son Master.

      Reply
  21. Kato October 23, 2020

    So while we are pissed off and discussing why the Packers piss us off, there is a receiver out there that has 23 catches for 357 yards and 3 TDs. That receiver was in the Packers roster at the start of camp. His name is Travis Fulgham.

    Reply
    1. Ferris October 23, 2020

      So sad. I need to be the GM and a Scout. They really need help. Should have signed Dez to the practice squad. Like a team with an awesome front office. Baltimore.

      Reply
  22. kelly October 23, 2020

    Yep..I think the Packers scouting office needs an overhaul

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 23, 2020

      I think we need a new President
      .
      Thanks for the slide….have a nice day.

      Reply
      1. PF4L October 23, 2020

        Let LaFleur hire his own Def. Coordinator. He’s earned the training wheels takin off
        .
        Let him…do his job.

        Reply
        1. PF4L October 23, 2020

          Expanded…

          Back in early 2018, we all know Mark Murphy stated he was in charge, no move was going to be made without his approval.
          .
          Let me ask this…..What makes Murphy think he’s of a higher authority or intelligence, that he has to approve coaching or personnel moves on this team? When did he earn these stripes?
          .
          1) Is it because he has a business degree?
          2) Is it because he was a player over 4 decades ago?
          3) Is it because he has no coaching experience?
          4) Is it because he has no NFL football operational experience before 2018?
          5) Is it because he had no NFL experience in a NFL front office before joining the Packers?
          6) Is it because he was caught sleeping at the wheel for years, and had no idea what was going on under him with his football team and he wanted to let everyone know that in 2018 he was NOW….fully in charge.
          ……………………………
          If you picked #6….you may be on to something.
          .
          I don’t know about you….but i think LaFleur might be a bit more qualified to making coaching decisions. Decisions, that most every other coach in the NFL has the freedom to make. at 18-5 and his past experience, i think he’s earned it.
          .
          Sure…..it’s no business degree, but still…….(heavy sarcasm).

          Reply
  23. Mick October 23, 2020

    Ya, I totally agree LaFleur should have the authority to hire who he wants as DC.

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 23, 2020

      LaFleur could walk into Murphys office today, sit in front of his desk, throw his feet up on it and say…..
      Listen Mark…..i’m going to let Pettine go, i’m not asking your permission, i’m just letting you know i’m going with somebody else. If that’s a problem Mark, then consider this my resignation.
      .
      What do you think Murphy would do?
      .
      The same thing he’s always done…Not a G D thing.

      Reply
  24. PF4L October 23, 2020

    How do we go from spending $118 million for 2 pass rushers, drafting a pass rusher at #12, then all we hear is talk about trading for JJ Watt and paying him 17.5 million for one year of pass rush help? Stop the fucking insanity.
    .
    WTF is going on here?
    .
    I guess we can’t have enough qb’s, rb’s or pass rusher’s, but we have enough skilled receivers?

    Reply
  25. Stiggy October 23, 2020

    Say what you want about ab…but the buccaneers front office said they are trying to win super bowls NOW and what do they do?… add a perennial all pro wjdeout and shore up their run defense in one week.

    What do they packers do? Pick up some journeyman middle linebacker from a practice squad.

    Based on those moves you would think it was the bucaneers who were outclassed and thoroughly embarrassed on national tv.

    Reply
    1. just_a_regular_fan October 23, 2020

      Exactly. When other franchises get the quarterback position take care of, they get serious about adding pieces.

      Meanwhile in Packer land, many are on the hype train after they won against some bad teams early in the season. lol

      Gutenkunst was really low effort in the offseason. He stuck with his 2018 wide receiver draft picks and re-signed Shepard who he had already released last year. Funchess was a nice addition, but when he opted out there wasn’t any urgency to replace him. Now there are some rumors that Gutenkunst is seeking a trade, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

      Reply
      1. PF4L October 24, 2020

        @regularfan…..One reason for the low effort was they shot their load on free agents last season. The Smith brothers gave Gute a little clout in his strategy (to the average fan) last season, but the way it looks, even that is showing signs of going south.
        I remember somebody saying, “even after a good season, the jury is still out on free agents because they don’t stop getting paid to perform after year one”…..but that guy should have been banned a long time ago imo. He’s more trouble than he’s worth.
        .
        This last off season he had just enough cabbage to sign Wagner and Kirksey, and some band aid flunky named Funches and tuck a few million away for emergency.
        I’m not sure whose idea it was to put Wagner at left tackle last Sunday, but if Bak can’t go this Sunday, they may want to spend a few minutes re-thinking that disaster.
        .
        I don’t know if i’d call last Aprils draft as “low effort”. Maybe misguided is a better word. I’m not sure after the draft if anyone said….”Boy, Gute sure did that right, were going to be putting a better product on the field this season.”
        .
        But….We have two #1 draft picks, and a #2 pick patrolling the sideline bench during the games making sure no one is getting silly and causing trouble.

        Reply
        1. Just_a_regular_fan October 26, 2020

          Yeah I get that the packers were never going to be big spenders in free agency after last year. I still think there could have been more opportunity in the draft.

          In 2011, the falcons had the 27th pick. They were able to move up all the way to 6th and get Julian Jones. Like the packers they had a good offense but lacked a dynamic receiver and they were stuck picking late. Instead of accepting their fate in the draft, they got aggressive and made a move. Sure they had to trade a bunch of picks including 2012 1st round pick. But if we’re saying that the packers don’t have money for veterans then getting a player who has to play on a rookie deal justifies a trade like that.

          Reply
    2. Cheese October 24, 2020

      Damn straight Stig. It’s all about the mentality to win. The Packers can claim to have it all they want but actions speak louder than words. It’s like many years ago I believe it was Mark Murphy made a comment about winning the upcoming super bowl. Not loudmouthed and arrogant like Rex Ryan, but a nice vote of confidence from your president, right? A few days later he back tracked and apologized saying “I didn’t say we were gonna win, I just said that it would be nice if we did.” Meanwhile, the Patriots were trademarking the phrase “Blitz for Six,” indicating they were going for their sixth ring. Two totally different approaches to a situation. Murphy goes soft and apologizes for being confident, New England gives zero shits about what others think and trademarks a phrase that says they’re gonna win a super bowl that hasn’t happened yet. How did that work out for both sides? Obviously there’s more to football than this but you get the idea. It all comes from the top down.
      .
      The Packers TALK about winning now when something like 60% of their passes last year went to UDFA’s. At the same time they got a bench full of 1st and 2nd rounders riding the pine.

      Reply
  26. Skinny October 23, 2020

    Being reported Gute is WR shopping. What the fuck? As i said in the off season. Go get Hopkins! Didnt happen. So Ill say it now again. Go get Julio! Do it! Do it now! Stop with this undrafted FA WR shit. Give the Falcons a second round pick and lets start getting serious about winning a SB.

    Reply
    1. stiggy October 23, 2020

      Too late. The Jordan love era is here. Let’s hope he one day makes the active roster

      Reply
      1. PF4L October 24, 2020

        Sign AB, trade a high pick for JJ Watt and pay him 17.5 million? Trade a 2nd for Julio Jones and pay him 15.3 million?
        .
        Where does all this money come from?
        .
        Bak wants 22 mil/year..jones won’t come cheap, Linsley sure as f isn’t coming cheap, King wants to be paid and we face a shrinking cap
        .
        Where is this cash coming from?
        .
        Are we cutting Preston Smith?
        .
        Out of all that, AB makes the most sense. But were trying to get rid of a disease, not add to it.
        Would i have signed him….YES, IF i can get out unscathed if i want to send him packing in 2 weeks.
        But the BUCS have him, so it doesn’t matter.

        Reply
        1. Skinny October 24, 2020

          Ha. No thanks on AB. Thats a disaster for Tampa or anybody. I dont know man. The Chiefs just spent about 600 mil in contracts last year so i would think the Pack could move some numbers around to make something like that work. But I believe if the Pack traded for Watt this year his salary isnt on the Packers books correct? Im just saying in speaking about all of this. This team needs a kick in the ass to get over the top. Watt and or Julio could do that and ill take my chances. Every team is doing this stuff now, this going for it all stuff.

          Reply
          1. Howard October 24, 2020

            The thing about even discussing Julio, is if the Falcons did trade him they would incur a 58+ Million dollar immediate dead cap hit. No way would the Falcons make that move.

            Reply
          2. PF4L October 24, 2020

            All respect for Julio, but i wouldn’t touch him anyway. Calvin Ridley…different story, i’ll give a #1 and Rashan Gary for him. then i’d trade Davante hopefully for a 1 or a 2.. I think he’s a Diva (yea….i said it). I also might be thinking he may be somewhat of a disease on this team to the young guys.
            .
            It’s fairly obvious who the new star in Atlanta is, Julio still has skills and he’s 31, but i think he’s an old 31. This guy has had almost 1300 targets, 820 receptions…that man has taken his share of hits, plus he’s not an elite producer in red zone TD’s having a season high of 10. But man…he can move the chains.
            .
            JJ Watt also, isn’t worth the draft capital or the expense based on his injury history, Again…an old 31.
            .
            Lets see what’s happening with Kirksey when/if they decide to be honest about him.

            Reply
  27. Mick October 24, 2020

    In addition to not addressing the wide receiver spot in FA or the draft, I am gonna hammer on management for not addressing the totally obvious needs at DL and ILB spots. Let’s take a look at Pettines’ bend but don’t break defense. With all the money Gutey has spent on FA and draft capitol wasted on 2 to 3 year projects, our defense still doesn’t have an identity. With all those resources spent, all we have to show for it is a defense that struggles to pressure the Q-back, force turnovers, stop the run, tackle consistantly, and create stops in the red zone. Now, I know not all moves in FA or the draft pan out, but, at least you should see the defense moving in an upright direction. So far, that isn’t the case this season. They are down from every category mentioned above from last season. Defense has been the shit pile in the corner of the room since way back in 2011. I don’t trust Gutey and don’t like Pettines’ scheme.

    Reply
  28. PF4L October 24, 2020

    The only thing that’s worse than seeing Murphy’s face, or hearing his voice (yes, it’s that bad for me).
    .
    Is hearing the term. bend but don’t break defense. That’s a losers mantra.
    .
    We’ve been hearing that happy horse shit since 2011.
    .
    Maybe i’m wrong..(again). But how has that mantra worked out for the Packer defense?
    .
    I can name games through the years that dispute that claim. Actually i already have.

    Reply
  29. Ferris October 24, 2020

    Texans + 3.5. That tells you all you need to know about the Pack. Houston 1-5, Green Bay 4-1. Road favorite, but this line stinks. If anyone in Vegas believed either of these records Green Bay would be +7.5 like KC is at Denver.
    If I were neutral I’d take the home dog all day every day. Against an injured Green Bay team. This game is a perfect example of why I don’t bet on football. Just poker.

    Reply
  30. Ferris October 24, 2020

    One more thing. As long as there is a good player and draft pick garage sale going in Bud Grant’s old neighborhood. Can we trade Jordan (wasted 1st rd pick) Love to the Purple for Adam Theilen? Or maybe a package of Love and Gary for Theilen and a first round pick? Cousins in 2020 1-5 record with 11TDs and 10 INTs. He earns $2,062,500 per game. so that’s $12,375,000 so far this season. I could do 1-5 for a lot less than that.

    Reply
    1. PF4L October 24, 2020

      Word has it you’d be a better General Manager than NFL QB.
      .
      That’s just the word on the street.

      Reply
  31. PF4L October 25, 2020

    I went back to read the entertaining post when readers wanted Rodgers traded or benched for Hundley. that was entertaining, until i ran into this nugget where killer and i shared a short conversation….ahhh….memories.
    ……………………………………………………….

    Killer September 24, 2016
    PF4L, as your idol crumbles so, too, does your composure….
    .
    .
    PF4L September 24, 2016
    killer….if i wanted to converse with you, i would’ve given your mom a message to give you, when i sent the bitch home.

    Reply
  32. PF4L October 25, 2020

    Week 6: Green Bay Packers at Houston Texans
    .
    What say you?

    Reply

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