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It’s a Changing of the Guard Among NFL Quarterbacks

Any number of sad stories can be told in the wake of the 49ers’ thrashing of the Packers, but I’ll start with one that fits a very broad perspective. Put bluntly but honestly: the days of Aaron Rodgers being an elite quarterback appear to be over.

The evidence is compelling, if not conclusive. For example, did you notice which of Aaron’s receivers failed to have a pass completion of more than seven yards? Think about it. I don’t think many would deny at this point that the team’s receiving corps is the weakest in memory. This certainly is a partial explanation of what’s gone wrong with the passing game, but it doesn’t begin to account for what we witnessed Sunday evening.

Here’s that list of receivers: Valdes-Scantling, Graham, Allison, Lazard, Kumerow, Jones, Vitale, and Tonyan. And the only exceptions, Davante Adams and Jamaal Williams, didn’t catch a pass of over 15 yards. Geronimo Allison’s tally in the past four games has been 43 yards – I don’t even see him being on an NFL roster in the next year or two. Marquez Valdes-Scantling, over that same time span has two catches for 11 yards. Aaron’s only interest in him seems to be as a deep-ball threat, and Aaron’s deep ball expertise has waned.

Over the last three games Jake Kumerow has two catches for 23 yards. Of course I’ve been following the usage of Aaron Jones: in his last three games, and he’s managed one catch, for minus yardage. Aaron had the league’s fourth highest ranked running back receiving yardage just a month ago. It’s gross negligence on LaFleur’s and/or Rodgers’ part.

Rodgers makes 2-pt conversion against Chargers

Nov 3, 2019; Carson, CA, USA; Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers (12) dives in for a two point conversion during the fourth quarter as Los Angeles Chargers outside linebacker Thomas Davis (58) defends at Dignity Health Sports Park. Jake Roth-USA TODAY Sports

Chargers Game Redux

Before we leave the subject of receivers, I had hoped we learned something from the Chargers loss earlier in the month: that some semblance of a reasonable offensive start to a game is vital – like, say, at least a couple of first downs instead of a bunch of three-and-outs.

After the Chargers put up a 15-play drive to start that game, a screen for minus yardage, a false start by Brian Bulaga, and a sack on third down put the Packers in a mental state from which they never recovered – the announcer pretty accurately called it a case of “nerves” – it’s largely metal at any rate. The next four drives were for 6 plays, 9 plays, 3 plays, and 5 plays – and punt, punt, punt, and punt. It took till under a minute left in the third quarter for Green Bay to put three points on the scoreboard.

So how did the Packers start off against the Niners? On the game’s second play, Davante Adams gets a first down, but is penalized 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct – he chest bumped his defender after the play, and right in front of a referee. Davante’s head obviously wasn’t in the game or focused on winning. Unfortunately Adams is the only receiver Rodgers seems to trust – he got targeted 12 times on Sunday, and produced 43 yards – a measly 3.6 yards per play.

With Adams having set the pattern, Rodgers then fumbled, with San Francisco falling on the ball on the 2-yard line – and scoring on the next play. The Packers then followed up by going three and out three times in a row, before Jones got stuffed on an utterly predictable fourth-and-one plunge up the middle. What happened to the illusion of complexity? Similarly to the Chargers’ game, the Pack didn’t get on the scoreboard until under four minutes remained in the third quarter.

The Over-the-Hill Gang

I digress. But moving on to the quarterback upheaval in the NFL, one could say it began in September when 38-year-old Eli Manning, a two-time Super Bowl MVP, got yanked by the Giants after just two games. 37-year-old Ben Roethlisberger also lasted but two games before undergoing elbow surgery. Also in Week 2, arguably the greatest thrower in league history, the Saints’ Drew Brees, injured his hand and didn’t return until week 8. At age 40, Drew is still at the top of his game.

Due to a few quarterbacks like Brees defying the aging odds, we all got to thinking that QBs should routinely be able to excel up to around age 40, or even longer. Brett Favre did so (though in a purple uniform) and so did Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady is still well above average at 42. Rodgers has made it clear he wants to play at least till he’s 40.

But these are the exceptions. The Falcons’ Matt Ryan, named the league’s MVP in 2016, has led his team to a 3-8 record – and he’s only 34. The Chargers, and their 37-year-old 8-time Pro Bowler, Philip Rivers, are at 4-7. Joe Flacco, a former Super Bowl MVP who is now with Denver at age 34, has spearheaded the Broncos to just three wins on the year. Andy Dalton is winless for the Bengals – the 8-year veteran appears washed up at 32.

How about the passer ratings of these guys? Ryan, who led the league with a 117.1 rating in 2016, sits at 93.3; the venerable Brady is at 88.5; Rivers is at 85.5; Flacco is at 85.1, and Dalton is at 79.2. Aaron Rodgers is hanging on to triple digits at 100.4, a mediocre 12th best. Every year from 2008-2014 Rodgers achieved a higher rating, capped off by a league-record 122.5 in 2011.

A-Rod turns 36 the day after the team’s next game, against the Giants on December 1. His slippage is pronounced, prolonged, non-subjective – and natural. It’s not a knock on the guy – it’s human nature and he’s human.

Patrick Mahomes scrambles against Chargers defense

Nov 18, 2019; Mexico City, MEX; dKansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes (15) is pursued by Los Angeles Chargers outside linebacker Thomas Davis (58) in the third quarter during an NFL International Series game at Estadio Azteca. The Chiefs defeated the Chargers 24-17. Kirby Lee-USA TODAY Sports

The New Wave

The reigning league MVP, Patrick Mahomes, 24, the third-year Chiefs star, is the current cream of the quarterback crop – he sports a 110.0 rating, 4th best. Other youngsters on the rise are Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson (106.3, 6th), Houston’s Deshaun Watson (103.4, 8th), and Dallas’ Dak Prescott (100.8, 10th).

Quarterbacks in mid-career who are enjoying great success at the moment include: Minnesota’s Kirk Cousins, who after Sunday leads the league with a 114.8 rating; Seattle’s Russell Wilson (112.1, 2nd); and the currently sidelined (with spinal fractures) Matthew Stafford (106.0, 7th).

Non-elite

By almost any standard, Aaron Rodgers is no longer a top-tier, or elite, NFL quarterback. Yes, he can still turn in a dazzling performance, as he did with his “perfect” 158.3 passer rating game against the Raiders on October 20. But game in and game out, his performance has been in a gradual descent for the last five years. His passer ratings from 2011 through 2018 unmistakably reveal the downward trend: 122.5, 108.0, 104.9, 112.2, 92.7, 104.2, 97.2, and 97.6. It’s seldom that such numbers reverse themselves.

At another time we might want to debate his increasing inaccuracy, his throw-away tendencies, his susceptibility to sacks, his decreasing mobility, his failure to convert third downs, and his emotion-less lack of response when things turn bad – an example of non-leadership that will receive increased scrutiny in the aftermath of the 49ers takedown.

For now, let’s just look at one simple example: timely execution of play calls. I think I read where the Packers lead the league, by a wide margin, when it comes to delays of game – something like 25 such penalties This doesn’t count the many time outs that were wasted in lieu of drawing a penalty. These continual 5-yard walk-offs are a primary reason the Packers so often find themselves in third-and-long situations.

With a new head coach and offensive schemes, we knew before the end of preseason a problem existed. Even during the bye week, Coach LaFleur was still stressing the need to clean it up. The coach had earlier on accepted a portion of the blame, but more recently what I’ve seen is Rodgers continually intent on changing formations and plays while the play clock is on the verge of hitting zero.

Not only does the problem remain, but Rodgers has caused the problem to become worse as the season has unwound. Inexcusable.

Getting Old

Because Rodgers is Rodgers, Green Bay fans have come to embrace the notion that he defies the aging process. We know he’s a health nut when it comes to both training and nutrition. Regardless, one distinctly loses speed, quickness, strength, and coordination by the mid-thirties.

I assume that one’s reaction time, all important for a pro quarterback, also suffers. I’m also concerned about aging and vision – could this help to explain why Aaron so often fails to get off throws to open receivers before that narrow window of openness closes?

In other words, we should expect the decline in Rodgers we have all been observing. It’s the norm, not something unusual. Aaron doesn’t possess super powers – though Drew Brees, with his 106.6 passer rating (5th best) and incomparable completion rate (75.7%) might – he’ll be 41 in January.

Aaron Rodgers and Matt LaFleur

November 24, 2019; Santa Clara, CA, USA; Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur (white pullover) talks to quarterback Aaron Rodgers (12) against the San Francisco 49ers during the third quarter at Levi’s Stadium. Kyle Terada-USA TODAY Sports

Team’s Response to Its Aging QB

If they don’t properly address the decline in their quarterback, GM Brian Gutekunst and the rest of the front office will fail to do so at their peril. Assuming their plan is to replace Rodgers via the draft, I would think that they should devote their top draft pick following either this season or the next season to selecting a quarterback. They ought to also look into moving up in Round 1 if they want to have confidence they are selecting someone capable of becoming the team’s next “franchise” quarterback.

The other option is of course to keep an eye out for a trade for a promising, or overlooked, young NFL quarterback – it’s how the Pack acquired Brett Favre, and how the 49ers obtained Jimmy Garoppolo. Gardner Minshew, anyone? – I never said this is without any risk. Or you could wait until Round 3, and locate a Russell Wilson type.

Packer fans should well know that the timing of going after a future starting QB is tricky. The front office couldn’t have known that Favre would hang on forever – you might recall that he’d talk of retirement year after year, even as training camp approached.

As it was, had the Packers not elevated Rodgers to be the starter in his fourth year, Aaron surely would have moved on to another team when his rookie contract expired. On the other hand, starting signal callers have been known to go bonkers when their team uses its top draft pick on a QB.

It’s common practice now to have a high draft choice QB start from Game 1 of his first season.

At any rate, if Green Bay is to learn anything from this season’s two stunning defeats in California, it should be that the search for Rodgers’ replacement – if not already underway – needs to begin in earnest. It’s called planning ahead.

Tags:
Rob Born

I’m with Matt: “You gotta make those chunk plays!”

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67 Comments

  1. Savage57 November 26, 2019

    Vic Ketchman repeatedly asked, “What’s the rush?” when it came to reupping Rodgers, and I agreed wholeheartedly. You could see the slippage starting before the ink was dry on the last contract. Had the Packers held their water for a year, maybe they wouldn’t be handcuffed with what’s looking like another in a line of bloated contracts rewarding past play, not future. Randall Cobb comes to mind. And since this thing’s still got some legs, as Rodgers skills deteriorate and his athleticism waves goodbye and that ship sails further away with each year that passes, the Packers are horribly exposed at the most important position in the game and will be handcuffed by that contract for several more seasons.

    What was once an asset is increasingly becoming a liability. Unless the Packers and Gute’s staff come to grips that this team can no longer be ‘surround AR with some middling talent, and let him do his thing’, the fall off the cliff for this team is going to be faster and steeper than anyone anticipated.

    Imagine if the Packers had an extra $7-10M in cap space? They might be able to afford an ILB who can cover, a DB who’s not Ladarius Gunter reincarnate, or a TE who can actually run and catch.

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 26, 2019

      I can imagine if the Packers had an extra 7-10 million. They could have paid Billy Turner, Jimmy G and T Willy more money.

      Reply
      1. Adam November 26, 2019

        I fucking lol’d… because it’s true.

        Reply
  2. Ferris November 26, 2019

    Well they got one SB win out of him….NEXT!

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 26, 2019

      He only got to one SB….but i’m sure that was his fault anyway, amirite?. Because it’s always his fault.

      2011- 2019…Player acquisition importance?….over rated.

      Reply
  3. Stiggy November 26, 2019

    I think the issue is Rodgers could still be an elite qb if he decides to embrace the slippage and change his play style..and yes it has been done. As we stand hes still a top 10 qb.

    Brees… cited in this very article was a steve young type mobile qb…as he has aged hes more or less a Kirk cousins type…leans on his rb.and kills people with deadly throws within the offense.

    Some horrible tendancies I once thought were gravy heads may in fact be a relic of the Favre era passed down to rodgers… what I’m referring to is the “try to trick them” by throwing 40 yard pass fiasco we routinely see fail. Throwing off balance and the back foot routinely and thr gambles mentality. See…Rodgers doesnt gamble like Favre did…he gambles by waiting for the bug play

    Make no mistake…Rodgers physical skills throwing the ball have slightly diminished but he is still capable of being a top 5 qb…if he drops the ego a bit.

    Reply
    1. Stiggy November 26, 2019

      *40 yard pass on 3rd and 2

      Reply
  4. PF4L November 26, 2019

    It’s strange that his passer rating would decline. Citing the fact the team has improved on an annual basis.year in, year out.
    ***
    I could see if his rating declined annually, if the team itself declined annually. But that’s not the case amirite. This Packer team has clearly improved annually.
    ***
    So clearly ……Rodgers, needs to go.

    Reply
    1. Kato November 26, 2019

      I don’t think that’s what he is necessarily saying. I think he is saying they need to draft another quarterback with an eye to the future. Do they wait until he is a bottom third QB before making that call? He is 36 years old, it was never a guarantee that he would hold up till 40.

      Reply
      1. PF4L November 26, 2019

        No problem, I get it Kato. They can’t draft a wide receiver, not sure how their going to find a franchise QB, but ok.

        Sometimes i try to make a counter-point with a sarcastic slant. Not everyone will get it.

        I’m sure if you put a 20-something stud in Rodgers place during the 49er game with the same personnel, he throws 350 yards and 4 TD’s. Everyone knows when it comes to QB’s, it’s how young you are, not the talent surrounding you.

        Reply
  5. PF4L November 26, 2019

    Rob, i’m confused…is Rodgers an above average QB?

    Reply
  6. Kato November 26, 2019

    I think they need to be on the lookout for one of those dual threat quarterbacks in the draft next year. I watched the Ravens Rams game last night. Lamar Jackson makes that offense so much more dynamic. With the exception of having Mark Ingram at running back, the personnel are not any different than when Joe Flacco was QBing a mediocre offense there last year. Jackson makes that offense so much more dynamic and elevates the play of everyone around him. Rodgers doesn’t have that ability anymore, and I have been saying it for a while now, he is going to need to change his play style and be more of a pocket passer for this offense to succeed. If he won’t change, then let him continue trying to do whatever it is he is trying elsewhere, because it clearly isn’t working here.
    *******
    That being said, Rodgers is not the biggest problem facing this team. A move a defensive coordinator will have to be made, and my hope is Fangio is fired in Denver. They cannot keep throwing draft picks and money in the defense and keep having mediocre results. And it seems they need another receiver, although that is difficult to really tell since this offense tends to get tunnel vision for Davante Adams.

    Reply
    1. Kato November 26, 2019

      Oh, and a replacement for Bryan Bulaga wouldn’t hurt

      Reply
  7. Deepsky November 26, 2019

    I watched the 49ers game again and found the same stuff I have see over and over in the past couple years. Good defenses do this same thing and it turns Rodgers into a mortal.

    If a defense fake blitzes early, Rodgers holds onto the ball too long, gets sacked and he’s no longer the same throughout the game, unless the defense makes mistakes and Rodgers takes advantage of it. For some reason, maybe its because Rodgers doesn’t trust his receivers or the play call, a fake blitz causes Rodgers to pull the ball down and he waits for guys to get open. After several of these early in the game, Rodgers doesn’t trust anything and never gets into rhythm. The 49ers did this a lot early on, then later, the blitzes became real, although they probably weren’t necessary because Alex Light was doing his best Tony Mandarich imitation.

    If Rodgers had good tight end or a receiver he could trust like Jordy Nelson, it would nullify the fake blitz. Davante Adams is supposed to be that guy, but he played terribly Sunday.

    And I swear, the 49ers knew exactly what LaFleur was going to call. Their guys were not all world on defense, they were just in the right spot at the right time. It seemed every run, the 49ers had 8 guys near the line. It’s not hard for linebackers to make the play on a run when they are 2 yards off the line, vs 5 yards off the line like the Packers linebackers.

    I blame LaFleur for this. He had two weeks to come up with something different, but I didn’t see anything different.

    Reply
    1. Kato November 26, 2019

      They were at the right spot at the right time because they are a well coached, mostly disciplined defense. They stick to their assignments. LaFleur did take advantage of their tendency to overpursue at times, the end around to Lazard was a great call. The fake to Aaron Jones with Rodgers rolling right after carrying out the fake was a great play call and Rodgers executed it about as good as it gets. Aaron Rodgers is trying to make this a dynamic offense and it simply isn’t. There is nothing wrong with dumping off to receivers and letting them make a play. I have rewatched some of the game, and he lost a few opportunities

      Reply
    2. Jason Parker November 26, 2019

      I think you’re onto something in that it is more of a mental hang-up for Rodgers than a physical decline due to his age.

      Reply
      1. PF4L November 26, 2019

        Maybe an ultra small percentage of performance is a reflection of personnel.
        ***
        Sometimes i wonder what Rodgers rating would be if he was on the Queens with that defense and their offensive talent, 125-130? I could see that, easily. One thing is for damn sure, no one would be talking about Rodgers age.
        ***
        The talent around a QB………matters.

        Reply
        1. KILLER November 26, 2019

          Long deep chuckle….

          The Vikings have much worse pass pro than the Packers. If Rodgers were on the Vikings he would totally lose his sh*t every game. He would have retired by midseason.

          125-130?

          Long deep chuckle….

          Reply
          1. PF4L November 27, 2019

            OK…give or take a point.
            ***
            LONG DEEP CHUCKLE
            ***
            1976….LONG DEEP CHUCKLE
            ***
            You could take a career 80 passer rating QB, if you put him on the queens, he’ll be 100. Even Kaepernick could win on that team, if he didn’t destroy it first.

            Reply
    3. PF4L November 26, 2019

      There is something to be said for being in the right place at the right time. I don’t think it’s by accident. The 9er defense is real and their fast as f…. The offense is along for the ride.
      It all starts with their line, where games are won.

      Reply
      1. PF4L November 26, 2019

        I think the 3 of us submitted at the same time…lol

        Reply
  8. PF4L November 26, 2019

    Since were dumping on Rodgers…..why does he want to ruin Rashan Gary’s career? Why is he making the coaches sit a #12 pick on the bench? Did Rashan look at Dana wrong? Did Rashan call Rodgers “Grandpa” when they first met? Why won’t Rodgers let Gary on the field?
    ***
    I’m getting pretty G D sick of Rodgers bringing down this ultra talented team. We have 3 pro bowl receivers, a HOF tight end. A Kamura like running back. Easily a top 10 offensive line who stand their ground and give no quarter. Yet…..Rodgers insist on throwing away games and seems to give no fuck.
    ***
    Retire Grandpa….you’re a has been. Go open up a go cart track with that flat chested, tight ass, has been, never was, pretend race car driver.
    ***
    I’m Done!

    Reply
    1. rebelgb November 27, 2019

      WoW PF4L! Since when are you on your knees for Rodgers? I think its ridiculous that you cant weather any criticism of Rodgers. You always seem willing to spread the blame everywhere else; what makes Rodgers untouchable? I have always been a pretty big Rodgers supporter, but its short sighted to think that he cant be criticized or that it might be possible his skills are declining.

      I have always IN THE PAST considered your posts well thought out and fair. Lately I dont know if its your recovery, or your still in pain, but its been bad. Are you even watching the Packer games? If you dont see the issues with Rodgers and his play then your not being honest with yourself or any of us. He is throwing off his back foot again (like last year), he refused to step UP in the pocket (which results in a lot of the QB pressures he is getting), he is innacurate, and he holds the ball to long. YES THE LINE HAS BEEN BAD in the 2 big losses, but its been a 50/50 issue.

      FInally Rodgers absolute refusal to take chances due to his precious TD to INT ratio costs this team any chances of coming back from big leads. I get protecting the ball during close games, thank you Rodgers for that; but the 49er game is a great example of a time to take chances to give your team a shot. Not worry about your stupid legacy.

      Reply
      1. PF4L November 27, 2019

        I’ve said, i don’t know how many times. Rodgers shares some blame, and even detailed it. So you can say i think Rodgers is untouchable, but i would give no fuck, because that’s a lie.
        ***
        It has nothing to do with criticism of Rodgers if it’s legit.
        ***
        Funny….when he throws TD’s off his back foot nobody is complaining.
        ***
        Funny…When he was winning MVP’s he valued his TD to int ratio and i heard no one complaining.
        ***
        Funny…How he extended plays (held the ball) and got off plays where we’re all saying “holy shit, how did he make that throw!!” to the tune of a passer rating over 130 when he scrambled out of the pocket, no one was complaining. Ever wonder why opponents say they need to keep him in the pocket? There is good reason for it.
        ***
        Now… you seem to blame Rodgers because ( your words,great example) he was worried about his stupid legacy during the 9 er game. To make that statement, you have to know what he’s thinking during the game. Well you win Rebel…because i don’t have that skill. I can’t compete with that level of intelligence you claim to possess.
        ***
        Yes, Rodgers and LeFleur can’t get this play clock thing straightened out. Yes, Rodgers holds the ball trying to find an open receiver. Yes…it pisses me off when Rodgers scrambles out and throws the ball out of bounds. All shit i’ve said before
        ***
        Now…is it fair to say this receiving core is the worst he’s ever had? Now…is it fair to say he’s had better pass blocking? Now…is it fair to say it’s hard to overcome both of those problems? Now…is it fair to say the success of of our drafts over the last 8 years have been largely a failure. Now…is it true that our free agent signings and the money they spent has been a joke outside of the Smith brothers? Yea….i could go on, but i’m getting tired of this shit.
        So….which problems are going to have a larger effect on the success of this team, Rodgers throwing off his back foot, or out of bounds…or all the shit i just listed?
        ***
        It’s about perspective, people are losing their shit thinking Rodgers should cover for all the sins of this team. Yes…he has done it in the past. but when the talent gets depleted, it becomes harder and harder.
        ***
        It’s funny…this season the punt return team has (minus yards)…but no one brings it up…lmao. Yes…you read that right, minus. Today you learned something new. so it’s a good day.
        ***
        Thanks for your participation.

        Reply
        1. Ferris November 27, 2019

          All this teams needs is a winner…I have another QB in mind,,,I can’t say who because that will generate a rant longer than yours. I’m thinking of a name it starts with the same letter it ends with…..

          Reply
          1. Kato November 27, 2019

            Lol I hope you don’t mean Kaepernick. Look, I think the guy is talented enough he should be in the league. I honestly wouldn’t mind him as a backup as long as he kept his SJW crap to himself, because I am certain he is better than any QB on the Packers roster not named Rodgers. I criticize Rodgers, but he is still probably better than at least half the QBs in the league

            Reply
  9. Kato November 26, 2019

    Of course the talent around a QB matters. I just think the offensive line is fine, other than they need more depth, especially at the tackle position. Receiver and tight end on the other hand, yeah they certainly appears they aren’t as talented as years past. I don’t know if it is the offense that they run, not being put in a position to succeed, ect. A lot of teams squeeze production out of middling receiver talent all the time, I don’t understand how this team isn’t able to make due unless the receivers are truly that atrocious. Randall Cobb has one more receiving yard than Adams does this year, let that sink in. Yeah, Adams missed a few games, but Cobb also is the third leading receiver on his team. Just glacing at the receiving leaders, there are names there I have not heard of, and some other guys I have been underwhelmed by (Cole Beasley). There are two running backs that have more receptions and yards than Davante Adams for God’s sake. There is a disconnect between the offense being run as it should and the quarterback. That is the only logical thing I can think of. At some point, the ball needs to get to receivers. The quarterback and playcaller are responsible for this. And I am sorry, I highly doubt that these guys are all covered up this tight every play.

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 26, 2019

      Cobb has more receiving yards than Adams, YEA……Cobb has ONE more yard in 3 more games. Not sure what your point is other than maybe Adams isn’t as good as we thought.

      You may think the line is fine, but i’ve seen them fold up like suitcases against the Chargers and 9ers. Sure, you can excuse it by saying, but they played really good defenses if it makes you feel better. But guess what they’ll play in the playoffs….really good defenses.
      ***
      Don’t cry and whine that Rodgers only got 3.2 ypa. after his line got shoved done his throat.
      Then you turn around and call the line fine. No bias there.
      ***
      Last year the receiving core was bad. Explain to me how it is better this year. Tell me that the O line is better this season than last season. Do you get the picture yet? Important aspects of the offense have regressed, but you expect Rodgers to improve from last year, .which he has in comp. % and rating. But damn….that fucking Rodgers…Rodgers, Rodgers, Rodgers bashing in almost all your post.
      ***
      Please answer…..Last year the receiving core was bad. Explain to me how it is better this year. Tell me how the tight end position is better this year? Tell me that the O line hasn’t regressed this season from last season.

      Reply
      1. MMSUCKS November 26, 2019

        Regarding the Packers O-Line, I saw one play in particular that featured E. Jenkins’ (who I believe will be a very good O lineman for many years). I have NEVER seen a guard shoved on his ass faster, and with such aplomb than he was by the 49’ers D Lineman. It was head shaking in it’s violence! I rewound it a few times out of disbelief! Now that is what REAL playoff teams do to wannabe’s. it is just sad that our Packers are the wannabe’s . . . I compel any of you to find that play. It was embarrassing to say the least.

        Reply
        1. PF4L November 26, 2019

          Do you remember when during the game it was? I would take a peek at it.

          Reply
      2. Kato November 26, 2019

        My point is the Cobb as the #3 guy behind Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup has essentially the same receiving numbers that our number one has. That’s not good, even though Adams missed a few games. That speaks to one of two problems: the playcaller not putting guys in a position to succeed or the QB isn’t getting them the ball and is bailing on plays before they come to fruition.
        ******
        You and I are obviously not watching the same games here. Yeah, the line hasn’t been perfect snap in and snap out. Some of that is getting down early in ball games, as they did against San Diego and San Fransisco and being in very predictable pass plays. Sorry, but no line is going to succeed in those situations. You know one way to avoid that? Not fumbling the goddamn ball inside the 10 yard line and expect the defense to hold them out of the endzone from two yards out. Rodgers had time to get rid of the ball on that play. He had Jimmy Graham and Aaron Jones wide open on that play, but I am guessing he didn’t throw it to them because they were short of the first down. Well, a short completion and a punt is better than a sack fumble.
        ******
        I think we are in agreement that the receiver/tight end position leaves much to be desired. I don’t even know why Geronimo Allison is being trotted out, and it would stand to reason that it is worth giving Kumerow some more snaps. Allison is a known commodity at this point. They need to get the backs more involved in the passing game. LaFleur and Rodgers need to find a way to get these guys the ball, and LaFleur needs to get these guys open.

        Reply
        1. thomaslind949yahoocom November 26, 2019

          It’s VERY hard to understand why Rodgers doesn’t take what he’s given, and ignores
          wide open receivers. He did the same thing last year too. Aaron Rodgers is the most aware player on the field. Everyone talks about how intelligent he is, so maybe I don’t see the big picture like he does. But who did PFF rate as the worst performance of ANY Packers player, other than the not so special teams players? Rodgers! One of the highest payed players in the league, playing like shit. As well as acting like a drama queen when things aren’t going the greatest, instead of acting like a leader and rallying the troops. It might not be such a bad idea to quit telling him how brilliant he is, until he starts acting like it.

          Reply
          1. PF4L November 27, 2019

            That’s what i’m thinking. I watch Packer games and all i see is wide open Packers receivers. Great post tommy.

            Reply
  10. Dayoops November 26, 2019

    First off I’m a Rodgers fan ……BUT does anyone else get the feeling he plays so conservative is maybe the fact he wants leave his legacy by maintaining that highest QB rating of all time?

    Reply
  11. Dayoops November 26, 2019

    Anyone else get the feeling rodgers conservative play is for him to lock down the greatest qb rating when his steps off the field for good

    Reply
  12. MMSUCKS November 26, 2019

    I will attempt to be succinct. Aaron Rodgers is MOSTLY a victim of the Packers upper-management ineptitude. They have inadvertently fucked him over for years. Because of this, Rodgers has had to make serious adjustments to his game. Sometimes to the detriment of his potential. He has developed a form of PTSD (very loosely referencing) in regards to his interaction with his own players and against the defensive players on other teams due to the CHRONIC lack of good talent around him. In other words, he has become overt in his reactions to who he throws to, who he trusts, and to what he will check in or check out of. Some of his offensive players and coaches that he has been forced to work with have created this box that he must now play in. I firmly believe that he has stifled himself because of all the past season’s playing with the Buffoon, dealing with horrible draft choices, very little REAL FA acquisitions, and ridiculously readable schemes from the Buffoon. I believe that he is burned out and because of it, does NOT make, nor does he care as much to take the chances that he used to. Why in the fuck would he? Would any of us? Rodgers is cynical PERIOD! And to some degree he has earned this behavior . . . Thanks to all of the past brain trust at 1265 Lombardi that he has been forced to play under! ESPECIALLY Ginger Gap-tooth . . .

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 26, 2019

      I think we all know how Rodgers has covered up weaknesses in this team over the years. I posted a few years ago, that Rodgers can overcome things like a weak receiver group if he has a decent line. Or how he can overcome a weak line with a decent receiving core. But he can’t overcome both at the same time.

      Reply
    2. Mike Ditka's Mom November 26, 2019

      They fired everyone and still you whine like a bitch. But I expect nothing less from Total TMZ Packers. Burn it all down, Freckles. Burn. it. all. down.

      Reply
    3. thomaslind949yahoocom November 26, 2019

      “I believe that he is burned out and because of it, does NOT make, nor does he care as much to take the chances that he used to”. What the F— are you talking about? This guy makes 30 some mill./yr. to win games, not to be cynical. You are 100% spot on about how he was robbed of a supporting cast in quite a number of ways over the years ( free agency, some horrible draft picks). We can blame Thompson and the people who let him keep his job 5 years longer than he should have, for that. But to say that he earns this behavior is bullshit! He earns about 33 million a year. That’s what he earns. Not the right to be a distraction instead of a leader. I’ve never seen film of Breeze and Brady acting like a fucking diva when things aren’t going well. If Bart Starr would have tried acting like A-rod does, Lombardi would probably have kicked his ass in front of the whole goddamned team. Maybe right in front of the cameras on the sidelines during a game.

      Reply
      1. stiggy November 26, 2019

        I think you raise a good point. I dont blame rodgers for taking a ton of money (he probably could have squeezed more) but its hard to feel bad for him having less talent around him when hes eating up half the damn cap for the offense..and unfortunately..unless they draft a ton of good offensive talent its only going to get worse.

        They have no legit replacement for Bulaga…Bak looks like hes still a great player…but he will be up for a new contract with his decline on the horizon…and lets not forget Aaron Jones…..the most dynamic player on this entire team…will be needing some money soon…. along with Kenny Clark. This makes the Rashan Gary pick even worse because they NEEDED that talent on the offense. Thankfully grahams contract will be up…but that is gonna basically be worth the increases in the Smiths’ and Amos contracts.

        Speaking of offense…why are we all arguing about #12 so much? The reality is Jones is the new center piece of the offense…when hes clicking rodgers is such a fine qb he puts up perfect ratings. We need to be utilizing jones more…throwing to him more…and then we wont have to force the godamn ball to Davante… he will be open.. The packers need to keep Jones fresh but they better feed him the ball in every way shape and form starting with the vikings game moving forward. (presuming the Pack makes the playoffs)

        Reply
        1. PF4L November 27, 2019

          Bakhtiari’s decline is on the horizon? Hmm….so it’s going to get worse than his 17 point drop so far this season?

          If Rodgers is eating up half the cap on offense, maybe i need new batteries for my calculator

          Reply
          1. PF4L November 27, 2019

            Just so i’m not confused Stig………you state that Rodgers cap number is responsible for having less talent around him. That’s interesting but…….
            ***
            Isn’t Kirk Cousin salary cap larger than Rodgers? Don’t the queens have better talent, or at least better results?

            What happens if Rodgers reduced his salary and the Packers had 10 million more to spend, does that guarantee more talent? So far they spent over 20 million on Jimmy G, 11 million on Billy T. What Stig……one more free agent signing like those two and the offense is all set? Maybe the Packers can spend another #12 pick…..on another fucking bench warmer.
            ***
            So ya….i think we can concur a lot of this is Rodgers fault…… amirite?
            Poor player acquisition over the years and foolish as fuck free agent contracts plus years of mismanagement, i’m pretty fucking sure, have little to do with the problems on this team. It’s Rodgers fucking cap number…..amirite?
            ***
            “Billy Turner made 2 million last season, i couldn’t get him unless i gave him 11 million”- Russ Ball, NFL expert contract negotiator.
            ***
            “I wanted to make Jimmy Graham the #1 paid tight end and pay him 30% more with a longer contract than the Saints wanted to give him, so he would feel loved here” – Russ Ball, NFL expert contract negotiator.
            ***
            Because if Rodgers took less money, With Russ Ball, it’s money in good hands. then the team would be good….amirite?
            ***
            Thinking isn’t over rated.

            Reply
          2. Stiggy November 27, 2019

            I didnt feel like getting in to the bak debate but I agree he looks like hes going downhill fast. I genuinely believe dude has a drinking problem.

            Reply
          3. Kato November 28, 2019

            Because he can chug a beer?

            Reply
  13. Aaron's Brother - Alberto November 26, 2019

    I could see this coming long ago, he’s possessed by the devil in the Red Dress. At least he started rolling the bills on his baseball caps somewhere near properly, but that took a lot of time also. I’d guess he gets lonesome for Jordy Nelson, and Randall Cobb quite a bit these days. Looks more and more like the Vikings could win the division, while the Packers show off their prowess, in the upcoming games against the Giants & Redskins.
    It sucks being a Packer fan, when you start to go to bed during these prime time games in the 3rd quarter. LaFleur really fooled them with one of his deceptive plays, but it will take a lot more than just 1 per game, if we make it past the 1st round of the playoffs. It sucks to get old …

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 27, 2019

      So you’ll “stay up” and watch the Packers…….if they win?
      Yea…..you sound like a Packer fan.

      Reply
  14. Mike Ditka's Mom November 26, 2019

    If only we had a coach like Mike McCarthy. Fire this idiot Lafert. And trade Rodgers for Cousins.

    Reply
    1. thomaslind949yahoocom November 26, 2019

      That’s pretty funny mom!

      Reply
      1. PF4L November 27, 2019

        .

        Reply
  15. Ferris November 26, 2019

    At least we are not Cowboy fans.

    Reply
  16. Mitch Anthony November 26, 2019

    Imagine when that day comes gang. It will be nothing, I mean nothing, like the interaction between Brett and Aaron back in the day. No frostiness whatsoever, Aaron will be so accepting of the move that it will look like one of those old buddy movies from the black and white days. I can see it now, a whole series of State Farm commercials filmed in black and white that fall somewhere between a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope road movie and those two idiots in the Sonic commercials (only meatless). Before we know it, that day will be upon us.

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 27, 2019

      I think a lot Packer fans need to experience this team….without a franchise QB.

      Reply
      1. Mitch Anthony November 28, 2019

        A lot of folks who post on here were never acquainted with: Randy Wright, Rich Campbell (a first rounder), Anthony Dilweg, The Majik Man, or David Whitehurst. It was all pre-1992, and most of it was aggravating.

        Reply
  17. thomaslind949yahoocom November 26, 2019

    I worry that the only thing Rodgers successor will learn from Rodgers is how to become too big for his britches.

    Reply
  18. PF4L November 27, 2019

    Some fill in host on The Fan, just said Rodgers can’t take over a game like he could back in 2011. I laughed, and laughed, and laughed. What do you need to take over a game? If you said receivers you might be correct. 2011 receivers vs. 2019 receivers, should i keep going?

    Reply
  19. Kato November 27, 2019

    I blame Olivia Munn.

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 28, 2019

      I blame Aaron Rodgers…Olivia is one hot piece of ass, why trade down.
      ***
      Fun Story: In Milwaukee, 2 hoods are caught on video robbing a woman of her purse and keys in a parking structure. The two hoods get in the car, a minute later they get out and switch seats. A minute later they get out again. Neither of them knew how to drive stick. Both have been arrested. Life lesson = You can’t fix stupid.
      ***
      Stay in school kids

      Reply
      1. thomaslind949yahoocom November 28, 2019

        I own a stick shift. I tell people that I have a built in anti-theft device. I’m glad you told that story. That’s funny as all hell!

        Reply
  20. NobodysBurfect November 27, 2019

    Our only recent investment on receivers was three middle round talents, none of whom have stayed healthy/worked out, after years of pissing away first and second round picks on failed “hybrid” players and DB’s. Our O-line isn’t playing well as a unit this year, despite having an all-world left tackle, a great rookie guard, a great center, and two guys we’re spending millions of dollars on in free agency.

    Rob – “Let’s look at Aaron’s completion percentages – I bet a lot of this has to do with how his projected 40 time has regressed. He’s done for. Trade him to Jacksonville for Gardner Minshew and that kid Left Foot McFibbons from their practice squad – he ran the fastest 3 cone drill in the greater metro Tallahassee area!”

    Reply
  21. Mr M Hughes November 28, 2019

    Its funny really….

    Every year its draft defence, draft defence. When you have an elite qb you don’t need receivers. Seriously what did you think was going to happen? Of course his numbers will decline.

    A QB rating of 100 when outside of Adams, his receivers resemble a practice squad is pretty impressive.

    Love to see how a rookie QB would do throwing to the likes of Allison who is basically a possession guy that can’t catch. Lazard I like but he is number 2 and is a guy that up until a few weeks ago, no NFL team including packers thought was good enough to make a roster.

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 28, 2019

      A QB rating of 100 when outside of Adams, his receivers resemble a practice squad is pretty impressive.- aware Packer Fan

      Fun Facts: The Giants average 11.9 yards per punt return. The Packers average minus (-)1.4 yards. J K Scott…Thanks for your help in the 9er game.

      Reply
  22. PF4L November 28, 2019

    Lets look at a “legit” reason to shit on Rodgers and LeFleur. When Adams was out, they figured out some play calling to finally get the offense moving and scoring points. When Adams comes back they seem blinded that they have to prioritize targets to Adams. During the 9ers game Adams got 12 targets for 43 yards. J. Williams had the longest pass play of the game for 15 yards.Against the Chargers Adams had 11 targets for 41 yards, Lazard had 4 targets for 44 yards.
    ***
    In the 4 games that Adams was out, the Packer offense averaged 32.5 points per game. In the 3 games Adams has been back, the offense is scoring on average 14,3 points per game. I get that they played 2 good defenses, i don’t care. You would think they are aware of this points discrepancy right? Can Rodgers, LeFleur and company figure out a way to maximize the offensive output with Adams in the line-up?
    ***
    Special note: It should be of interest that after a WIN against Denver, Adams expressed vocally, that he was unhappy that he had only 4 targets. The reason i bring that up, is because the Packers won the game, but he’s bitching about his targets. I’m not sure that passes the smell test, about where Adams head is. We don’t know the dynamics behind the scenes, BUT..after that, it’s a legit question. What’s more important to Adams, his targets, or winning the game?This may or may not have something to do with how many targets he’s getting now, but if it is, Rodgers and LeFleur better get strong and make a stand and put the teams best interest first.

    Reply
    1. Kato November 28, 2019

      This is a great point. Great defenses are going to take away who the perceive to be player that has the best chance of beating them. It is on to the playcaller and QB to figure out a way to get other players involved. One thing that I am trying to figure out is what happened to Danny Vitale? It appeared that there was the beginning of a good thing with him getting involved in the offense. When is the last time he had a touch?

      Reply
    2. KILLER November 29, 2019

      Piffle does make a great point about Adams whining after the Broncos game. Who does that remind you of?

      Yes. Rodgers. After the shut out victory over the Bills last year Rodgers was all downcast, whiny, and bratty about how bad the offense was. He acted like the Packers lost even though they won by 22 points! Why? Rodgers threw an interception and was pissed about how it would effect his QB rating and thus his accolades and thus his ego stroking.

      Rodgers and Adams: peas in a pod. Is that QB-WR rapport?

      Reply
  23. PF4L November 28, 2019

    OOPS….Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and their Families. Be happy and stay safe traveling.

    God Bless.

    Reply
  24. Ezra November 28, 2019

    Taysom Hill : I am a world class athlete and can do pretty much anything you ask me to do offensively.

    GBP “Slobbering TT” : Nah…

    MM: Nods approvingly, with gap toothed smile…

    Reply
    1. PF4L November 29, 2019

      Yea….Bree’s and Peyton may not be Brady and Bellichick, but they’re pretty damn good.

      Reply

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