Damarious Randall for DeShone Kizer. The trade was agreed to between the Green Bay Packers and Cleveland Browns late on Friday.
The teams also swapped picks in the fourth and fifth rounds of the 2018 draft. But the real question is what are the Packers getting with Kizer? Because on the surface, they just traded a starting cornerback for a backup quarterback.
Here’s what we can tell you about Kizer.
He was a second-round pick (No. 52 overall) by the Browns in 2017 out of Notre Dame. Kizer entered the draft after just two years starting for the Irish, plus one redshirt season. At the time, Notre Dame coach Chip Kelly said Kizer wasn’t ready for the NFL. The Browns didn’t care and his draft position suggests he was chosen to be a starter.
A starter he was.
Kizer was quickly thrown into the fire, starting 15 games for the 0-16 Browns as a rookie. And Kelly was right. Kizer wasn’t ready.
He threw for 2,894 yards, 11 touchdowns and 22 picks as a rookie. Some other interesting statistics are these: 53.6 completion percentage, 60.5 rating, six fumbles lost, 6.1 yards per attempt and he was sacked 38 times for a loss of 226 yards.
All of those numbers are horrible. Like, Brett Hundley horrible.
Surely, you can say Kizer was a rookie and played behind a terrible line, but this is also clear. The Browns have decided that Kizer can’t start in this league — and so have the Packers, for that matter. He isn’t coming over to take Aaron Rodgers’ job.
Kizer is coming over to be a backup.
Kizer is only 22, so he could legitimately fill that role for the Packers for at least three years. Kizer is under contract through the 2020 season. Meanwhile, this is the final year of Hundley’s deal.
The thing is, Kizer has a similar skill set to Hundley. In addition to chucking picks, Kizer ran for 419 yards in 2017. As we saw with Hundley, Packers’ coach Mike McCarthy does not know how to adapt his offense to such a quarterback. Either that, or he won’t.
But while Hundley’s limitations have become clear, Kizer is still moldable clay.
And finally, let’s get down to the financial ramifications. Moving Randall saved the Packers about $1.4 million after they ate the remainder of his signing bonus. However, adding Kizer costs about $700,000 per season, so the Packers really only gained about $700,000 in salary cap space.
This wasn’t a salary cap move. The Packers wanted rid of Randall.
If you want to go deeper into the cap, here it is. If the Packers cut Hundley, who is also due $700,000 this year, they could get back to the $1.4 million mark they shed in terms of Randall’s salary and roster bonus. And as I’ve mentioned to a few other people, if the Packers cut Demetri Goodson — as they should have a long time ago — they can get another $700,000 in savings. Then they’re up to $2.1 million in new space. That’s not much in the NFL, but it’s something.
But they still need cornerbacks.
Doesn’t look like a money movement. They are saving peanuts to what the NFL payscale is. That won’t net us any significant FA addition.
A bunch of problems solved in one move. Got rid of a guy who obviously pissed off a lot of people. Brought in an upgrade to work into the back-up QB role (everyone seems to have forgotten that Brett Hundley flat-out sucked out loud). Jumped to the top of two gut rounds in the draft, which the Packers may be able to use in a trade, if the planets align. And, they freed up a little bit of coin. Everyone got all wet when the Packers passed on Watt for an extra pick last year. By moving up 28 spots in two rounds, they essentially moved up one round in the draft, access to talent-wise.
Think about it. Was there anything you saw from Damarious Randall that really makes you mourn the Packers shedding him and getting some decent value from the deal?
No, not necessarily. But Randall provided snaps for the defense, and I don’t think anyone currently on the roster is any better. You are essentially trading a player that was going to play for you for a player that likely won’t see the field. As of now, the trade doesn’t look great, but this also tells me that the Packers are likely going to sign a FA or take a CB at the top of round one. And they must have faith that Rollins or Pipkins can be a productive nickel guy
They are not looking at their scrub roster @ CB, they are interested in a renovation.
King covers his turf, Pipkins has potential in the dime, SIGN a shutdown veteran FA, Draft three CBs #3, #4( Browns), #6. Rollins is not a Pro football player, Gone. The remaining UDFAs, All Ted Thompson Team of Hawkins, Brown, Waters can battle it out for the sixth spot with the draftees. The safety position is also open for a clinical examination. NO HUG ZONE!….play ball
While I don’t see Randall as a standout CB, beyond King, the rest are even worse. Sending our second best CB out does not help to patch up an already weak position. Now, if there was an very heavy issue between him and the rest of the locker room, which is what transpired lately, then the move is understandable. Those two rounds you mention are the 4th and 5th. Although it is possible to find a game changer there, the odds are against it. I hope they put that extra ammo to trade up if needed. At this point we don’t need 24 rookies, of which half are cut before the season. We would be better off with four stronger contributors.
Wrapping up, the veredict on the move is subject to whatever they do to address the CB position in these weeks and the draft. CB is a position that a you can expect a rookie to decently man, contrary to TE, pass rusher and QB, assuming the CB has some talent to begin with.
5th round picks: Rich Sherman, KGB,v Linsley, 6th round : Brady, Doug Evans, DD, Non drafted HOF Johnny Randall….Desire , Determination, Dedication….Just get real football players. We don’t give a shit about the results from the track meet in Klan Country…
Good, you just proved that you can cherry pick exceptions. Exceptions don’t make armies.
There is a clear correlation between nfl draft round and starter status.
Round Freq. Percent Cuml
1 178 29.9 29.9
2 104 17.5 47.4
3 75 12.6 60.0
4 64 10.8 70.8
5 38 6.4 77.2
6 29 4.9 82.0
7 25 4.2 86.2
Undrafted 81 13.6 99.8
Supplemental 1 0.2
And here is the correlation to percentage of games started:
So, yes, while there can be exceptions, and drafting still involves factors that are not correctly forseen even by scouting professionals, you can’t argue that the with each round you drop there is an overall drop in talent.
In case you are still thinking of more exceptions to throw this way, here are the All Pro mentions and their draft round origin.
Round Freq. Percent Cuml.
1 83 48.5 48.5
2 24 14.0 62.6
3 15 8.8 71.4
4 12 7.0 78.4
5 9 5.3 83.6
6 6 3.5 87.1
7 2 1.2 88.3
The source for the tables is :
………..and R. Duke hits the canvas.
Well big Mike wanted Hundley to have some competition at backup QB. Looks like Brett will be safe for one more year.
Means gotta be taking a big swing at Sherman, Trumaine or Butler now right?
My hope is that Gute signs db Colvin in free agency. Furthermore, I am hopeful the Bills are looking to draft a QB and that QB is still available at #14 at which time the Pack trades out of the 14th spot in order to accumulate the Bills picks at #21 and #22. The Pack could then consider drafting Landry and Oliver (cb from Colorado). That would solve a lot of problems on defense.
HOLY FUCK…. You trade a FIRST ROUND pick who plays cornerback, a position of horrible depth on this team, for a fucking back up quarterback???? Randall wasn’t a first round talent but at least he had some value. Kizer? He’s another Brett Hundley whose whole purpose is to warm the bench.
There has to be some bad blood between Randall and the staff. Even so, they couldn’t find a better trade to suit their needs than a backup who had 22 ints and 11 tds last year? Sweet pick up bro. Fist round pick for a backup QB. Maybe it does get worse than Ted. Good thing Murphy sat on his hands when Dorsey was available. Watch Randall become an all pro safety next year because he’ll be on a team that plays him at his natural position. Gee, what a novel idea! I don’t know how much more of this bullshit I can take… This makes zero sense to me.
Brian Gutekunst….fuck you
I remember once before when the Packers missed out on drafting a qb they really, really wanted. They wound up trading a 1st round draft pick for him the next year after he had thrown just 4 passes, 2 interceptions, had a qb rating of 0.00, and was a known partier. He didn’t even know what a nickel defense was. Wonder how that trade worked out? Anyone remember what happened to the guy?
Don’t start comparing Kizer to Favre. Favre had a QB rating of 0.00 because he only had four passes. Kizer played an entire season. Big difference. Favre knew what a nickel defense was, he just didn’t associate the name with the formation. When someone described it to him Favre replied with “that’s it?” It’s not like he made it to the NFL being oblivious of what a nickel defense was.
Hey just so everyone knows, that was the big off-season move for the Packers. That’s it, so I wouldn’t go crazy when we don’t do shot up until the draft. Nothing is going to change.
Ridiculous trade. They got a second Hundley. While Randall is bust, he sure the hell is worth more than Kizer and a little draft jockying in the late rounds.
i just spent a bit of time watching highlights of Hundley and Mahomes and Kizer.
Personally I like Kizers size over the other two. I also like how raw and strong he is. He has a high ceiling.
Hundley I thought played about the same, maybe better, but with better receivers. He played as good as he can be. Kizer may blossom into a starter.
Going into this draft, due to the Kizer trade, they are picking higher in two rounds, and have a tradeable QB in with Kizer.
Rollins, Randall and Hundley just do not have the star power and tradeability of Kizer, with only a rookie season in the league.
So, bravo Gute and company. Well done. Now we can get a stud TE somehow and hopefully Philbin will use him often.
Pass rush or top CB woyld be good in draft too. Now trade pretender Ha Ha for a hitter at safety, while he has trade value
Kizer was thrown into the fire his rookie season, i get that. But, his play hardly showed the league he has “star power and has tradeability”. To keep it real, he looked terrible, except against the Packers and Steelers.
Here’s my thought process, I respect Dorsey and his talent judgement, because he’s proven. If he thinks Rollins has more upside than Kizer, that tells you all you need to know about his feelings on Kizer. Dorsey doesn’t want him, even on the cheap.
Star power? I don’t see that my friend.
Browns fan here
I think all of you missed a very important point. Hue Jackass was the offensive coordinator and the head coach. Hue is ignorant. He called the shots re QB decisions. Wipe away all the negatives you hear and see about Kizer and focus on the fact that the idiot Hue Jackass totally screwed Kizer and set him up for failure.
Look at the good year that McCown had. McCown would have been the perfect bridge QB and also a mentor for Kizer. That type of thinking is above the pay grade of the ignorant and gray matter limited Hue Jackass. Look at how the Chiefs handled Mahomes. They did it a sane, intelligent way. Kizer, like Mahomes, should have been redshirted.
Hue Jackass had a terrible playbook and his play calling was atrocious. Nearly all of Kizer’s pass attempts were telegraphed to the defense all year long, much of it having to do with the sheer volume of passing. Although the rushing attack was decent in terms of yards per carry, the ignorant Jackass would not run the ball. Kizer was put in an impossible situation, behind in the score and throwing the ball as defenses teed off on him, knowing exactly what was coming.
For all of you trying to compare Kizer to Hundley and/or looking at Kizer’s INTs and other stats, you are really missing the key issue. Hue Jackass was the offensive coordinator. That alone should tell you to ignore any negatives about Kizer’s first year. A professional and successful OC has now displaced the ignorant Hue Jackass in CLE but that is too late now for Kizer. With a fine organization with a sane OC and HC, Kizer has a chance to develop. Look at Kizer’s age. Give this young man some time to develop and not be burdened by the pathetic Hue Jackass and this young man may well develop into a good QB.
Our owner Haslam is the CEO of Pilot Flying J claiming he knew nothing about the fraud 8 of his top execs were indicted for by a federal grand jury, our new GM Dorky slanders the players and slanders the previous EVP and our HC thinks he can be the OC and QB guru when he is not NFL caliber in any of the three positions. Maybe it’s time to dissolve the franchise.
So what…Mike McCarthy is our offensive coordinator.
What’s your point?
I will never understand this trade. While Randall was probably a below average corner, he still has value in the fact he would have played 40-60% of snaps next year. For a guy that won’t play unless Rodgers gets hurt. This is a headscratcher. Randall must have been a shitty guy in the locker room
I don’t get it either, Randall is a bum but give me a fuckin break there better be more to the story here or Gutz has been popping Teds dementia meds. Even if we do manage to not get fucked over on a FA deal with a starting corner it would be nice to have some sort of depth other than losers like Goodson
Gute may have said to Philbin and Pettine when welcoming them to Green Bay, what player do you want to add, amd what player do you do not want in your scheme.
Some wishes will be granted on draft day, and others with predraft trades and cuts.
Out with baseball lover instead of football loving Randall is fine with me. Ted Thompson would have outright cut Randall, if he would have ever admitted fault for trying to convert that safety to corner. Ted would have got zero, like he did when he cut his recent young 1st round pick Datone Jones.
At least with Gute, we moved up, got a stronger, taller, younger Hundley, who has not yet had 3 yrs to improve, whereas Hundley did have that time, and got shutout and swept, etc. Kizer even has trade value if needed. Hundley has none
A younger, more interception prone, winless Hundley.
But it’s something….this from Monty even! No, the cap is nothing. We got rid of a CB on his rookie contract. Only way to replace him is with an inexperienced rookie, or a Vet at 5 times his price! And then we still need another
I don’t really care about this trade. Probably because i don’t care about Randall, or Kizer. I see this trade and i say big whoopdee fucking doo. Because in reality, it doesn’t improve this team, right now. We added a bench player, who GAF?
I imagine this trade was easy for Gutenkunst because he knows Dorsey and was willing to take his call. But as far as all the things that need to be done to improve this team, as of right now, this trade means absolutely nothing.
To repair the damage that Ted has done, and Murphy let Ted continue to do. Gutenkunst needs to have some come to Jesus personnel moves. Gute needs to make the kind of moves that get’s people’s attention. What i’m talking about includes all phases of improving this team including the draft, trades, free agency, player cuts, picking up UDFA that offer some usable skill for the bench (depth), salary cap reduction, etc. The whole nine yards.
With that….I’m not jumping all over Gutenkust shit, he deserves a chance, and some time. All the years of bad drafts and foolish contracts aren’t going to be repaired in 4 weeks.
Unfortunately the deal that Russ Ball and Ted blessed Nick Perry with, can’t be rectified until after the 2019 season, and even then if cut, he would account for 7.4 million in dead cap money in 2020. This is the same Russ Ball that Murphy wanted to make the General Manager, most likely on Teds recommendation. In hindsight, it’s probably a good thing that McCarthy told Murphy “fuck that”.
So yes, i say give Gutenkunst a chance, and some time. But make no mistake about it, he better get fucking busy.
I am with you. Shouldn’t be calling for Gutekunst’s head this quickly. A fairly strange start to his tenure but I am at least willing to see where this train is going
The Perry deal was a fucking joke when there were stud pass rushers to be had in 2017 draft…absolute bullshit to sign a guy who misses 40-100% of the season every other year.
Trade him out. Gutekunst has his hands tied by Ted and now he has to figure out a Houdini escape act.
This is how I see this trade… DR is a disrespectful, injury prone, self entitled, know it all chump. Couldn’t tackle and looked lost most of the time in the field. There was no way GB was going to extend him after this year. GB could not depend on him due to injurys.
What we got: GB moved up 14 spots in each of the 4th & 5th rounds. For me that’s huge! The 4th round pick is the first pick of the day. A 21 year old QB prospect, stop comparing him to Hundley who had 3 years to develop and still sucked. He was everything that his draft profile said he would be. We also gained cap space.
Im happy about this trade. It forces real action to be made in the CB group.